In SCOTLAND can a teaching assistant teach a class alone?

[Swollenandgrouchy]

posting here for traffic as not many responses in the education board.

my kids are at a rural primary school in Scotland. One class is being split across two rooms, and they are still calling it one composite class… but the teacher will only spend half of her time in each class room (I am told).

I believe the rules in Scotland are different to England in that they pupils must have a qualified teacher at all times… but I cannot find any formal guidance on this.

I would be very grateful if someone in the know could share a link to the guidance/legislation please?

Thank you!

There aren't teaching assistants in Scotland, only classroom assistants so they should not be teaching, perhaps working with small groups to support their learning. A classroom assistant should not be in charge of a class.

Not a teacher but do live in Scotland and have three kids in schools here. Classroom assistants very much play a supporting role, as a PP has said supporting individual children or taking small groups out to do extra reading/maths or similar. Or minding the class in an emergency when the teacher has to dash to the loo or take a phone call or similar.

To my mind this is VERY wrong. We did have a situation about 10 years ago with my oldest, school bursting at the seams and they needed to make a composite of 32 where the limit is 25 - but they had two fully qualified teachers at all times.

I would raise this with your Parent Council, there should be details on the school website and if not, the local council should have details. Also maybe post on Scotsnet as there are loads of teachers on there.

https://www.eis.org.uk/policiesandguidance/assistants

Might be useful - what assistants should be doing.

Brilliant thank you very much , that really helps!

How big is the class, how many kids and what age in each group. Sounds like they are justifying it by (I am assuming) the teacher will go through the lesson with group 1, classroom assistant will then support that group, teacher will then 'teach' group 2

There are around 40 children in the school. (Some of these maybe in the small nursery, I’m not sure if these are included in the roll).

anyway, roughly 18-20 x p1-p4 , and 18-20 x p5-p7

so if p1-p4 were split into two subgroups there would be 9-10 in each sub group

No, it wouldn't happen. And they're called Pupil Support Assistants.

There are leaning assistants and classroom assistants. Both have different roles. Neither should be in sole charge of a class. They certainly are competent enough but absolutely are not paid enough.

@letsghostdance sorry , are you saying that a learning support assistant is competent enough to teach a whole class?

@JMSA ive been told it’s happening

Thank you everyone.

I am really looking for specific guidance that states that a qualified teacher must be with the class at all times. I have heard this is the case in Scotland but so far have not read anything to back it up.

Presuming this is a small rural school that has always been a small rural school, why are they now splitting a class of 18 P1-4 into two rooms? What’s the reason? Do they suddenly have spare classrooms available in a school of 40?

I doubt there's a rule that says the teacher must be physically in the same room as every child at all times.
There's a qualified teacher for every 20 pupils, and the teacher is doing the planning and teaching - there won't be a rule that the classroom assistant can't supervise half the class.

@Swollenandgrouchy please post this thread again on Scotsnet - https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/scotsnet - although you have said Scotland in the title people are still using words terms like teaching assistant which is not a "thing" in Scotland.

Okay thanks @Misthios

As a PP has said there are no Teaching Assistants in Scotland. Not sure if it's the same all over Scotland but we used to have two different roles - a SEN auxiliary and a classroom assistant. Now they are all Pupil Support Assistants. They are absolutely not allowed to be in charge of a class.

In our school all the PSA s work in the infant classes so they help the teacher by working with small groups of children who need help or taking a group to do painting or craft activities.

@Swollenandgrouchy

Then I would definitely contact your union (Unison). Or join if you haven't already!

Oh, I'm so sorry. You never said you were the PSA!
Maybe something on their website would help though.

Maybe it’s a choice of this or the school closing

Who is the PSA? The OP?

I was a PSA for 12 years. Initially we were called Learning Assistants, they renamed us about 10 years ago. We were never allowed to be in class without a qualified teacher present, teachers would occasionally be late back after break or need to nip out of class for the toilet but this was very frowned upon and the teacher would be reprimanded if SLT found out they’d left a PSA on their own. The rate of pay is very poor, barely above living wage, expecting a PSA to teach a class is ridiculous.

There is always a teacher present in the classroom where I work, however I take groups out to do either extension work or support.

I imagine what will happen is that the teacher will teach half the class, while the PSA supervises work with the other set, then it will swap over. Does that sound feasible?

What I don’t understand about this set up is why they are splitting the class into 2 rooms? The numbers are well below legal limit for composite classes. The children should all be in one room with teacher and PSA present at all times.

However as a PP has said, it’s perfectly reasonable for a PSA to take a group of children alone for supervision/support.

The children will still get the same amount of teaching as if the class was together as 20 and the teacher just taught one group whilst another was working independently.

May well be just that they have the space - a school local to be do similar, they have spare classrooms due to numbers on roll dropping so they use two classrooms for each of the younger classes.
It means they can have a quieter room when the teacher is doing small group work or carpet time with half the class, more space for art areas and group work.