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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Annoyed with the office cleaner

450 replies

VerySweatyBetty1 · 02/08/2024 11:12

Here’s a thing:

I've suspected for some time that our office cleanerr sits and dozes / charges his phone / eats his breakfast in my chair. I’ve never quite caught him but I’ve often ‘surprised’ him ‘suddenly cleaning’ when I've walked in earlier than normal (I'm a late person). My office is an easy choice – comfy, fan, phone charger ready plugged in on my desk. He will have noticed I’m rarely in before 9.30 and he can listen out for people coming in and out. In fact, as I’m above the front door, you can hear people arriving as the door slams shut.

He's been caught out in the past by leaving his breakfast on my desk, and coming back for it. Apologetically.

My colleague once nearly caught him in another office, so it's a known thing amongst us that this happens.

Yesterday there were some ear buds in a case on my desk. Barely anyone else here this week and nobody would want to sit here anyway, as they all have their own comfy offices. So I was pretty sure they were the cleaners. Wondering what to do / and wondering what he would do, I put them in my desk drawer while I thought about it. That was yesterday. This morning they’ve gone. This means he’s come in looking for his earbuds and has opened my personal drawers in my desk. These contain my personal effects – medication, spare underwear, receipts, personal letters and cards. I can't lock the door of my office or of my drawers. We're a pretty low-security establishment and trust one another.

In addition: we have a very narrow entrance to our building (which is part of a group of buildings, which are all serviced by an external company). He has taken up residence at the foot of the stairs. Eats his lunch there. sits on the stairs having loud conversations on his phone. We have to literally climb over him to get in and out, including when we have visitors.

I've always found this highly annoying and inappropriate but my colleagues don't seem to mind and tolerate it and I don't want to be the office bitch. The bloke is bussed in with a load of others from goodness knows where, at the crack of dawn, probably on the minimum wage and probably not well treated. There must be a common room where his colleagues hang out, but he seems to prefer our stairwell. Maybe they bully him, and he just wants some peace and quiet. So, I don't want to ruin things for him but he's crossed a line.

He speaks barely a single word of English, so I can't even have a gentle chat with him (or I'd have done it by now). The only way to communicate is via his boss. I suppose I could use Google Translate and leave him a note:

"Please do not take rest breaks at my desk, and do not open my drawers"

I don't want to scare him, though, or I'll end up being the one in trouble.

WWYD?

OP posts:
Mousefoot · 02/08/2024 14:54

I wouldn't keep anything very personal in view in my desk drawer. I do have things like deodorant and spare tights, but they're in a bad. I'd look in a colleague's drawer if e.g. I needed a pen or scissors when I was nearby. I wouldn't be that precious about anyone seeing a pair of clean knickers either, mind

jannier · 02/08/2024 14:54

HollyKnight · 02/08/2024 13:03

Oh then someone needs to tell all the community care workers and district nurses that their employer is supposed to provide them with an area for breaks when they're out working.

And you should probably let someone know about all the domestics working in hospitals and care homes who barely speak a word of English either. Maybe they're all trafficked too and not just the spouses of people with better English who are here working professional jobs.

It's really not unusual for people who aren't from the UK to work with others also not from the UK. It makes life easier when you can work with people you can communicate with.

You don't know much about trafficking do you?

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 14:58

Teazels · 02/08/2024 14:33

Why is that OP's problem?

Yeah we can all just say tough shit and treat others like crap.

stayathomer · 02/08/2024 14:59

To be honest, just if it were me, I'd give him a break and smile at him and say hello

HollyKnight · 02/08/2024 15:00

Cornettoninja · 02/08/2024 14:47

@HollyKnight

Again, you're jumping to conclusions. How do you know he doesn't have a wife and family here

no, I’m going by the fact that the OP said that he doesn’t speak English so we only have the details given here to go on.

Because, like I said, no one would ask a French person if they were trafficked in.

how would you know someone was French? Because they spoke French? That doesn’t mean they’re from France.

lets face it, you’re jumping to as many conclusions as anyone else here. Personally, I would rather people highlighted suspicions of exploitation out of concern for a person even if it was patronising than thought ‘it’s probably ok’.

You wouldn’t, you do you, but I don’t see why that would move you to crusade against other people’s legitimate concerns by throwing around accusations of racism.

I can’t say for certain that this particular gentleman is being exploited and you can’t say for certain he isn’t. The onus on your position to act is less than mine so you’re pretty much done on the subject surely?

Quote where I said it's probably ok or that he isn't being exploited.

I did the opposite of jumping to conclusions. My view was that there wasn't enough information to even speculate, and that the people who are speculating about human trafficking are only doing that because they are ethnically stereotyping based on "cleaner" and "doesn't speak English".

VotesForWomen · 02/08/2024 15:01

If I find somebody else's stuff on my desk I often put it in my desk drawer while I'm using my desk, otherwise there's a high chance it would get lost in amongst my paperwork and general clutter.

If you leave your personal possessions on somebody else's desk and they put them somewhere else for safekeeping, that does not make them a thief. I highly doubt that OP would want somebody else's used earbuds FFS 🙄

OP - some of these people have never been menopausal and it shows. How about a lockable cash tin (or two) for small personal items? Or amazon probably has multiple lockable storage solutions in various sizes.

Teazels · 02/08/2024 15:03

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 14:58

Yeah we can all just say tough shit and treat others like crap.

She's not treating him like crap. He is making her feel uncomfortable in her working environment, and because she's a woman, she's told to "be kind".
I thought we were past all that nonsense. Clearly not.

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 15:05

@Teazels she stole his personal possessions, and reported him for taking a break at her desk.

DBSFstupid · 02/08/2024 15:06

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 02/08/2024 11:39

What would I do? I’d leave him alone. Sounds like he has a shit life.

THIS. With knobs on.

Cornettoninja · 02/08/2024 15:06

@HollyKnight

Your speculation over people’s motives is as big an unfounded conclusion as any other. Why would you be arguing against concerns unless you thought that they were unlikely (based on as much information as anyone else bar the OP).

I’ve already stated how not speaking the language of the country you’re working in makes you vulnerable and jobs such as cleaning (and nannying, nail bars, building trades, restaurants, car washes, hospitality etc) are known to fly under the radar making them attractive to those who wish do to so. You don’t see them as flags for concern for whatever reason but people aren’t wrong to thread these things together.

betterangels · 02/08/2024 15:06

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 14:06

@Demonhunter I would go through a colleagues desk drawer if I thought she was nicking my stuff I accidentally left on her desk.

Quite. Shouldn't be surprising. She shouldn't have hid them.

jannier · 02/08/2024 15:09

You catch him cleaning your office because you've normally last in so he leaves yours to last. Why do you assume he's asleep? Is it something anyone has seen or just being nasty.
Slavery charities estimate 122,000 are in modern slavery in the UK
You work for a charity be charitable.

Teazels · 02/08/2024 15:10

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 15:05

@Teazels she stole his personal possessions, and reported him for taking a break at her desk.

Oh fgs she didn't steal them.
And also, again, if he's making her feel uncomfortable, why shouldn't she report him?
Why should everyone else bend over backwards and creep about, hoping to not offend this man? It's a workplace not his house.

jannier · 02/08/2024 15:11

Demonhunter · 02/08/2024 14:09

Well MN is either full of liars or CFs. When I worked in an office I never even ate at my desk as I feel it's unhygienic so I'd be really pissed off if someone else took it upon themselves to sit at it and eat.

Guy clearly didn't feel comfortable enough to go and ask OP for the earbuds he left behind, but feels comfortable enough to go looking for them and eating and sleeping at the desk.

We always ate at ours as we were really busy and snowed under

jannier · 02/08/2024 15:12

VerySweatyBetty1 · 02/08/2024 14:30

And i didn't steal his bloody earbuds - I put them in my drawer to decide what to do. ie to leave them with a note, go and find him etc. But I didn't do either when i left yesterday and I left them in my drawer. I would have dealt with it today.

Why leave them in the draw why decide to do anything leave them where they will be looked for

GiveItAGoMalcom · 02/08/2024 15:14

VerySweatyBetty1 · 02/08/2024 14:10

For all those getting terribly worked up - he's spanish-speaking, and south american. His colleagues, from what I have observed, are also spanish-speaking. As is the guy who appears to be their team-leader / boss. More than that, i do not know. He doesn't speak English but I always say good morning and smile when I see him.

And as for the knickers (also socks, vest, deo, tootbrush, eyedrops, hayfever tablets, gaviscon) - it saves me carting an even greater amount of crap between home and work 'just in case'. I'm menopausal and also extremely sweaty if you must know - hence my user name. Happy now? I'm sure I'm not the first woman on the planet to have a drawer of such stuff in the workplace. My younger self used to admire women who were well-organised and thought about things in advance. I'm now that woman.

No, but you might be the first to hide the cleaner's property in your desk, and then moan they went through your things to find it?

Well let's hope so anyway.

jannier · 02/08/2024 15:14

HollyKnight · 02/08/2024 15:00

Quote where I said it's probably ok or that he isn't being exploited.

I did the opposite of jumping to conclusions. My view was that there wasn't enough information to even speculate, and that the people who are speculating about human trafficking are only doing that because they are ethnically stereotyping based on "cleaner" and "doesn't speak English".

And your view is why so many are left suffering get some training. Do you interfer in possible child abuse or is it easier not to?

ChallahPlaiter · 02/08/2024 15:18

HollyKnight · 02/08/2024 15:00

Quote where I said it's probably ok or that he isn't being exploited.

I did the opposite of jumping to conclusions. My view was that there wasn't enough information to even speculate, and that the people who are speculating about human trafficking are only doing that because they are ethnically stereotyping based on "cleaner" and "doesn't speak English".

Maybe but equally if someone’s brought in on a bus, doing a job that’s increasingly associated with trafficking and you can’t really talk to their immediate boss, it might indicate an issue. It probably wouldn’t be my first thought but it’s still a possibility.

MildredSauce · 02/08/2024 15:22

jannier · 02/08/2024 15:12

Why leave them in the draw why decide to do anything leave them where they will be looked for

Los auriculares están en el cajón

according to google!

Justyouwaitandseeagain · 02/08/2024 15:25

possible signs of slavery/exploitation: https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/modern-slavery/spotting-the-signs#:~:text=They%20appear%20to%20be%20under,if%20ever%2C%20have%20days%20off

speaking little English or coming from a different country are not in isolation signs of slavery but the red flags can add up...

  1. foreign worker
  2. low paid job
  3. limited / no english
  4. working in a group, bussed in together
  5. long hours
  6. signs of inadequate provision for breaks
  7. possibly sneaking opportunities to sleep / eat

Any one or more of these in isolation obviously won't necessarily be an issue, but all together can add up to a concern (not a definite confirmation) of slavery or exploitation.

and modern slavery isn't just linked to certain ethnicities...can be linked to anyone who is vulnerable (for whatever reasons) and in a role or situation where they are controlled and don't have the ability to simply walk away and do something else.

Spotting the signs of modern slavery | Neighbourhood Watch Network

Signs of a potential victim of modern slavery may include:

https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/modern-slavery/spotting-the-signs#:~:text=They%20appear%20to%20be%20under,if%20ever%2C%20have%20days%20off

LookItsMeAgain · 02/08/2024 15:34

lemonmeringueno3 · 02/08/2024 14:10

I think if you raised this as a complaint - he opened by drawer - he would probably counter by saying that you stole his headphones.

I just can't understand why you'd put them in a drawer 'while you decided what to do' - just give them to him or leave them where he could find them surely?

You see, I disagree with the position of "you stole his headphones".
The OP found headphones that weren't hers so put them in a drawer for safe keeping until such time as she could put a notice up, is the way I see that. Even if all she did was put them in a drawer for safe keeping, he still doesn't have the right to open drawers that are so wholly unconnected with his cleaning job.

He is there to clean. That is what he is paid to do. When he is on his unpaid breaks they need to be taken in the designated area for having a break (canteen/break room).

As this thread progresses, @VerySweatyBetty1 , what I would do is do an appraisal of the cleaning job and report on how the vacuuming hasn't been done etc. up the ladder. You say that your charity/business hasn't hired this cleaning company so maybe it's the building owner that has that contract and your manager/charity could report that to the building owner. If the cleaning company that he is part of has other cleaners working different buildings/different floors then perhaps someone else should be cleaning your offices and not him.
I'd note that sitting on the stairs is a safety issue as you've pointed out you have to climb over him to go up the stairs or to leave the building. He shouldn't be sitting there.

Pluvia · 02/08/2024 15:34

Totally inappropriate for him to be eating and sleeping in your office, OP. MN has lost its mind over this. Just because someone is a minimum wage worker doesn't mean they have the right to break significant boundaries. Does he go and sit at the desk of one of the male managers? No, because he knows how a man would react. Absolutely inappropriate for him to be going through drawers. I worked for several years in the kind of office you describe and no one, not even a trusted colleague, would open someone else's drawers without requesting permission. Once you start ferreting around you're in danger of being accused of nicking anything that goes missing.

I'd complain to management that there is evidence that someone has been eating and resting in your office and going through your drawers. I'd also instal a camera for a few days overnight so I could see exactly what's going on while I'm not there.

VerySweatyBetty1 · 02/08/2024 15:40

Just nipped back on here. Yes - MN has totally lost its mind. Thank you @LookItsMeAgain and @Pluvia and others for being the voice of reason.

Senior colleague now dealing with the matter. Like someone should have done several years ago.

"Just because someone is a minimum wage worker doesn't mean they have the right to break significant boundaries." Very well-put!

OP posts:
GodSavetheJean · 02/08/2024 15:40

I am shocked at the responses here criticizing you OP. This is completely unacceptable and tantamount to your home cleaning lady taking a nap and eating her lunch ON YOUR BED! OP I would report this and continue to report it until it stopped. I had something similar happening at a previous job and even thought I formally complained I was still able to lock my office. The only "cleaning" they did was taking out the trash but I often found their dinner trash in my trash and they left crumbs and empty cups on my desk.

MildredSauce · 02/08/2024 15:41

Pluvia · 02/08/2024 15:34

Totally inappropriate for him to be eating and sleeping in your office, OP. MN has lost its mind over this. Just because someone is a minimum wage worker doesn't mean they have the right to break significant boundaries. Does he go and sit at the desk of one of the male managers? No, because he knows how a man would react. Absolutely inappropriate for him to be going through drawers. I worked for several years in the kind of office you describe and no one, not even a trusted colleague, would open someone else's drawers without requesting permission. Once you start ferreting around you're in danger of being accused of nicking anything that goes missing.

I'd complain to management that there is evidence that someone has been eating and resting in your office and going through your drawers. I'd also instal a camera for a few days overnight so I could see exactly what's going on while I'm not there.

With all due respect. What a load of bollocks.

Although the thought of him opening her drawers to find her drawers is making me laugh!