And so it begins......

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/01/far-right-riots-keir-starmer-announce-new-violent-disorder-unit

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm in no way on the side of violent mobs and the rioting in the wake of the terrible events in Southport cannot be condemned strongly enough.

I was on a thread last night and commented then that these "protesters" were shooting themselves in the foot and now they've shot everyone in the foot. They've invited another step towards a police state and ever widening concepts of what constitutes extremism.

There's a reference to increased use of facial recognition technology.

Plenty of countries admire the Social Credit system operated in China, which advocates neighbours dobbing each other in for perceived infractions and massive surveillance.

I suppose it was inevitable in some regards, but those bloody rioters have done so much damage on every level.

As I say, don't come for me thinking I in anyway condone those utter twats in any way.

I'm just so sick that they've forced this to happen.

Out of curiosity I have been looking at TR and some of his supporters on X to see what it is they have to say. What I find so ridiculous is that they argue that no one is listening to them. When asked what it is they have to say......silence, or incomprehensible rantings.

They call for the police to stop two tier policing and for the police to "kick" the opposition's head in, kick some immigrants and basically call for a police state. The right wing nut job fascist white man in the riot wants more state fascism not less, but also wants his voice to be heard, and cries when he is manhandled off the street when he's getting (his voice heard) arrested. These same confused idiots want an end to the protests about Israel.

I am not surprised that TR is claiming that the police are using anti terrorism laws to deal with him. Of course they are, but wasn't he one of these people that probably thought a tough British state should clamp down on extremism?

Ultimately though the state must become more fascist. Since it is unable to intervene to create a better distribution of wealth and fairer society, and the wheels are well and truly coming off economically global capital does two things: Undermines the power of the state through debt but compels the state to increase its power over its (rabble) citizens. we are no longer docile labour but fast becoming a pissed up populace. this was all predicted by a little known European think tank back in 2013 set up to monitor protests and individuals. And whilst our government would have yo think the greatest threat to the liberal state is from the far right, the think tank said otherwise, the threat to the status quo they worry about comes from the far left. And Starmer is of course an establishment stooge.

Let's wait and see how that goes with the pro hamas demonstrators calling for death to all Jews, shall we?

This is it - the idiots have neglected to realise that they have put themselves in the same cross hairs they are complaining about. And potentially anyone who disagrees with the state even peacefully. I suspect this has been "in the works" for a while. It just needed something to happen that would nudge the public into accepting that "something must be done".

And in the absence of coherent policies to address the underlying causes, increasing authoritarian measures appear to be the only way to give the illusion of state control.

Peaceful protest will be curtailed, while the aggressive may see it as a red flag and want to go down fighting. I used to believe this was an alarmist way of thinking but it seems less so now.

And surveillance of social media in tandem with the companies running it opens the door to more than we realise.

Urgggh. The wheels have come off the bus indeed.

They haven't forced it to happen. It's what the government wants. All planned imo.

@KeebabSpider

Who is TR?

Tommy Robinson l assume

Welcome to Starmers police state. We all know it will only "certain protesters" that will be targeted, don't we. Anyone else it will be business as usual

Yes Robinson.

And in the absence of coherent policies to address the underlying causes, increasing authoritarian measures appear to be the only way to give the illusion of state control

I think the lack of coherent economic policy isn't a choice or even a lack of creative thinking, or a lack of money in the budget. Its simply a dead duck. We have been in decline since the early 1900's! the wheels are coming off at a global level. Could get into a lot of boring pedantic detail, but no point.

I think there is very definitely something about "Illusion of state control" that I hadn't really thought out, but suspect you are right. State control is illusory in global capitalism, even the USA is bankrupt and yet they are increasing government debt in order to remain the capitalist enforcer on a global scale. There is no corporate loyalty to any state, let alone to the USA. There is simply nothing in it for the state itself, which now lays bare the fact that the state itself never did represent the interests of its people. But nationalism and racism is stoked by the state as ideology that supports state power, national borders to enforce state power over people and create the conditions of exploitation and docile labour. But you are right in another way I think. The state gave birth to its monster child to do its ideological bidding, but that child is out of control now. Even TR points to this in one of his less incoherent rambles. The people grown up on these nationalist ideals who want to maintain "our culture" and "our way of life and values" are fearful that what gave birth to it (state power and ideology) is about to abandon it. can you imagine if we woke up tomorrow and poof.....no government. Panic, "who is going to make decisions for us"

This is why the capitalist class and the state fear the left wing. We won't wake up tomorrow and think "oh shit who is going to think for us"

These measures have been long planned and TR and his twats have just handed the government validation for clamping down on our democratic freedoms.

I don't get why we are so against everyone having ID. Germany has always had it and I carry my passport and driving licence anyway.

If we had gone for ID cards then much of this could have been headed off much earlier. And what are they going to do about the plonkers with hoodies and their faces masked? I wonder how well thought through this is.

Reminds of the old SPG of the 70s/80s, except it was the SPG who were the racist, far-right nutters - SPG - was The Met's Special Patrol Group. I remember being pushed to the ground by one when I was 16 on a very peaceful Smokey Bearz march.

I agree with this

Starmer appeared furious during a press conference on Thursday afternoon as he condemned the “tiny mindless minority in society … a gang of thugs [who] got on trains and buses, went to a community that is not their own, a community grieving the most horrific tragedy, and then proceeded to throw bricks at police officers – police officers who just 24 hours earlier had been having to deal with an attack on children in their community”

This has got nothing to do with 'peaceful protest' and everything to do with trying to curtail thugs who think it is acceptable to hurl bricks and paving stones at Police Officers.

And I also do actually agree with the proposal too - the regular Police forces shouldn't have to deal with the level of violence that they've recently experienced in both Stockport and Harehills (Leeds).

I gave the SPG as an example just to note how things change so robust oversight is always needed. It takes a certain type of person that's able to fulfill the role of a Riot Squad Officer and it's essential that they are directed by those with a 'cool' head whilst 'under fire'.

@KeebabSpider which think tank was it please?

Everyone's acting surprised, but how quickly they forget...the last government was the most authoritarian administration we've ever had. Think about the massive expansion of the surveillance state, the constant "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" etc. The only reason we don't have papers to check (both on the street and online) is that the technology didn't exist for Blair's obsession with a digital ID to become reality.

And now we have a Labour government with a previous head of the CPS running the show.

What did y'all think would happen?

And yet, they're still the best of the options we have, because the asshats in the Conservative Party screwed the pooch so badly that there was no other logical choice - it's literally corrupt, incompetent right vs authoritarian left.

People here must be too young to know what Labour governments are really like.

Between 1997 and 2010, the previous Labour government created 4,300 new criminal offences. Can anyone name just a few of them??

They have an insatiable desire for authoritarian control.

No one on this thread is surprised?

Thing is those who aren't surprised are written off as paranoid conspiracy theorists. During Covid and lockdown we had a long running thread that went on for about 7 iterations on the Covid board which started as a discussion about a book called State of Fear.

Yes, there were some proper batshit posts but for the most part it was about worldwide politics, who was influencing government policy from the corporate sector etc and where this all might lead All the threads got taken down eventually partly because even talking about it was allegedly anti Covid, all right wing propaganda and because of the concern we might spark a revolution... it was insane.

The film "Leave the World Behind" made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up as if nothing else it suggests a great blueprint for bringing the world to such a state if chaos, people will accept any regime that offers relief and a sense of security even if it comes with conditions one might not ordinarily accept. Again, lessons of history.

And all we can really do is "keep calm and carry on " on an individual level, because very few groups can get it completely right and some just seem to thrive on chaos....

I'm glad I'm old.

It should be noted that I missed a word out here - should've been "the last Labour government". Kind of important distinction, because the last government we had wasn't actually competent enough to enact any kind of authority at all.

@MistressoftheDarkSide At the moment, I don’t think anybody actually cares. Just as many people welcomed authoritarianism in 2020, I don’t think anyone is going to be horrified by this. Government has indeed been handed another golden opportunity to advance the cause but I don’t think many people cared in the first place.

I think people are quite happy with digital ID and probably see the conveniences rather than the problems. They probably won’t see that there are any problems - unless they belong to a minority group and have some issues with it that way.

I have noticed that when I express concern about things like face recognition, people who think it’s great will then do the politically correct thing of agreeing with my concerns when I point out I’m woman of colour 😂 But in reality they just don’t care about it.

I am somewhat reassured that it is happening many years after I was worried about it.

I do think we are going to turn into China eventually, but like you I hope to be dead long before that.

In terms of what the old threads were like, I do now wonder if some of the vitriol was not rooted in fear. It may have been more that this is the style of government those sorts of posters have always wanted.

Scary world we will be under full control

I think some people are very naive if they are surprised at State surveillance in one of the most surveyed countries in the world.

The last government has already brought in Draconian protest laws and everyone knows about the police infiltrating and gathering information on activists and various groups. It's been going on for years.

No one seems to care that the government are spying on people's private financial information though.