To think that homebirths should not be permitted unless you're willing to pay for it all yourself

[sparkleymummy]

Its appalling that there are not enough midwives to go around and yet women still insist on having babies at home. Why on earth would you think you have the "right to decide" where to have a baby when that service is being paid for by taxpayers. You wouldn't think you had the right to have a hip replacement at home or any other medical procedures. What on earth gives these women "the right"

(Sparkleymummy is a bit bored as a result of teething baby having been asleep on her ALL day - She sits back and waits for the uproar )

if your birth was mismanaged, then that is something that should be taken up with the hospital and the PCT not with other mothers

why blame other mothers???

YABU and ought to be ashamed of yourself, young lady.

Would have loved to have been "shoved" out of the door this time round, they kept me hanging around for nearly a whole day (can't stand hospitals and wanted to get out asap but they were so busy eating they lunch and doing paper work they "forgot" that I was meant to be going home )

You'd think with them being so busy they'd just go "Yup! Here sign this bit of paper" and off I go. . . kept having to poke them

YABU. Birth is NOT a medical procedure.

Fair play to OP, she hasn't a leg to stand on and she still came back to the thread to argue the toss.

She's got balls.

Had I had to go to hospital:

the nhs would have ahd to pay for me to eat a special and fairly complex diet during my stay

the ss would have ahd to provide care for my 2 disabled children at certain points

add in heating, water and utilities etc (and the fact that MW were only here an hour)- YABU, people have HB's for lots of reasons, sometimes quite complex ones so there needs to be a variety of options.

Also, had I not booked a HB it would have been one anyway due to speed of labour- would i then have been billed I wonder??

Actually, sparkleymummy, were you just really bored and looking for a fight to liven up your afternoon, you troublemaker, you?

What a bunch of bastards eh lolly? Imagine having the temerity to want to eat and do paperwork at some point during a shift

Erm! (sticking up for sparkleymummy now!!) She did say that she was really bored with teething baby having used her as a mattress all afternoon!

((runs and hides))

firstly, birth is not a medical procedure.
should we make everyone go into hospital to die, because it is selfish for them to want to die at home?
secondly, your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever from an economic POV.
giving birth at home is cheaper in every single way.
the chances of a section proceeding from a planned home birth is reduced.
what about we ban women from having a c section unless in an emergency situation - no more planned sections, because they are so expensive
also no more breastfeeding support. midwives are in short supply and they can't be spared can they?

or how about we train and retain more midwives? what a radical thought

I think you must be very bored . And yes, of course YABU.

There was a UK study done in 1994 which also found that planned home births were cheaper for the NHS than planned hospital births - and actually they state that home births cost the woman more. The text isn't available online (as it's been published in a rather comprehensive book with about 10 chapters) but it is referred to in several places e.g. the Healthcare Needs Assessment for pregnancy and birth (hcna.radcliffe-oxford.com/pregframe.htm):

"An economic evaluation was carried out as part of the National Birthday Trust Fund study of home birth in 1994. Planned hospital birth was compared with planned home birth and with unplanned home birth. Planned home birth was less costly to the health service than a planned hospital birth, although costs to the women were higher. For women who had an unplanned home birth, outcomes were significantly poorer, and costs consequently higher than for women who had either a planned home birth or a hospital birth.(82)

82. Henderson J, Mugford M. An economic evaluation of home births. In: Chamberlain G, Wraight A, Crowley P (eds). Home Births. The report of the 1994 confidential enquiry by the National Birthday Trust Fund. Carnforth: Parthenon Publishing Group, 1997; 191-211."

BTW are hb's common enough to make much of a difference anyway?

just- I live near a city, and there were two of us booked for HB's that month. A big fat 2. Rather insignificant statistically, I suspect?

didn't read whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that the COMMUITY MIDWIVES are not the same ones who are working in the hospitals? It isn't a case of, oh I want a home birth, quick grab a midwife from the labour ward!

community midwives choose to work where they do coz its safeer, and nicer, and more natural and because we have a choice.

the shortage of midwives is nothing to do with home births.

Go and file your nails or something sparkly, or read a book and come up with a more intelligent thread next time.

having a teething baby is no excuse for coming up with crappy threads. Its not even an intelligent argument, its trolling as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't mean they were doing it at the same time. . .
It did seem like that was a bit of an unreasonable thing to think wasn't it. . . sorry, said it wrond.

Meant that there was only two times that I saw them doing anything but sitting down doing sod all ("them" being, who I presume to be, the managerial staff, as the nurses were all dashing here and there, these were the people that needed to sign me out, every time I went to the office they were chatting (yes I mean chatting not talking work issues "he said to his mum. . .") ).

I've had 2 homebirths, both times had my own community mw, who wouldn't have been in hospital in any case, so didn't take the mw away from anyone. Actually in dd's birth, the mw spent less than an hour in my house, the 2nd m2 spent 15 mins there because she was born so quickly. We washed the sheets etc, used the electricity to boil the kettle, have a bath etc. And with ds2 he took longer, but was born on a Bank Holiday so they didn't even have any antenatal appointments to worry about cancelling.

Actually, looking at the title - perhaps the NHS should give a refund of the difference in cost by having baby at home.

community MW apaprently can work in hospital- MW told me today that ahd I delivered Saturday, the'd have sent a paramedic as all comm MW called to cover low MW numbers

but

that's not Mum's fault is it? that a huge issue that needs sorting!

I'm going to hide behind you Lollypopz.

This is more fun (I'll argue anything given the chance). What I really wanted to know was which was more expensive; a home birth or a hospital birth, but I thought I'd get a few more reponses this way.

Sparkley gives herself a slap on the hand for abuse of MN

I think it is fair to say that the OP (a) knows dick all about birth and (b) doesn't really care about women's experiences of birth.
which is a shame.
a woman's experience of birth is very important for her experience of parenting, for her future mental and physical health and that of her baby.
but really that is wildly insignificant compared to saving the taxpayer a bit of money, eh? it's only women after all. they should go back to doing what they are told.
birth started getting expensive when women actually wanted to have some control over it.
blardy feminists.

Sparkly you're a genius. . . maybe I'll join you and we can have a game of "who can get the most posts"!!

Namechange first, then post boredom-induced controversial thread. Saves hassle

but you're not arguing are you? you made a stupid thread, and haven't come up with any good reasoned argument as to why you posted.

Perhaps I can sugges another inane thread title "AIBU to think that B/f should be banned, as b/f mohers take up time needing support, and space on mn, and get their boobs out in public"

Relieved you're not too serious about this sparkley.

I think promoting a controversial viewpoint is a good way of starting a debate.