To think descendants of slave owners should visit former plantations?

[rowernoke]

Particularly if their family still has wealth earned through the atrocities of the slave trade and slavery?

For example, Laura Trevalyan visited former plantations in Grenada and met with local people to understand the role her ancestors played in the slave trade. She was so moved by this that she is now sponsoring education initiatives for those affected.

No one is responsible for the sins of their father.

It’s not a bad thing if they voluntarily want to do it but are you talking about forcing them to? If so I am not sure what good that would do. Plus if you delve deeply into lots of families there will be something untoward, whether it’s being a mill owner, running a coal mine, evicting tenants to farm sheep, smuggling, pillaging land which isn’t yours, being awarded land/ services/ position because you’ve gone to war and been favoured by a monarch etc. Not sure you can blame someone living in a 3 bed semi in Stevenage for their ancestors behaviour! But I do think wealthy people should have a social conscience anyway without having to have their noses rubbed into the family misdeeds.

I don’t know, if your family became extremely wealthy from “owning” other human beings I can understand doing that.

For most normal people though they haven’t enslaved anyone and it feels unfair to put the actions of their ancestors onto their shoulders. Some of my ancestors are pretty awful (not in a slave owning way, more of being an asshole way) and I feel absolutely no connection to their actions, having said that I haven’t financially benefited from those actions either. I think though if I knew I had an extremely privileged life because someone in my lineage made a shit ton of money from doing something as fundamentally abhorrent as using slave labour I’d feel pretty shit about it.

Plenty of people have ancestors who did things that are unacceptable today, but we're acceptable at the time.
Why pick on one group?

No, I don't expect anyone to go anywhere.if they want to that's fine

I have really mixed feelings. I think she has done some excellent work about awareness and has made an important contribution which is way better than nothing. The slave trade was so evil and I think acknowledging that your position in life came to you on the back of the suffering of others is something more people should do (not just related to the slave trade and not just individuals either!)

$100k is a drop in the ocean of the benefit but I guess she probably doesn’t have $4m lying around. However I also think the government should be contributing (both UK and US). I also think that the UK (among others) has abused the peoples of so many countries, stolen people, wealth and assets and it’s hard to quite know where to start.

If we paid reparations for the damage we did as a country then a) we would be bankrupt (possibly fair as that’s what we did to others) b) innocent people including descendants from those very countries would suffer.

I think overall she has done a good thing, more incredibly rich families should consider their history and the government should return as many stolen items as they can and acknowledge publically the harms we did in the past. I think it would go a long way

So just that group have to pay for the ‘sins of their father’ then?

Honestly - no! As PP said, no one is responsible for the sins of their father.

I don't think people alive today who had no part in their families history should "have" to do anything, it's not their choices.

Loads of people are descendants of horrible people, invaders, rapists, nazis etc. Would you have the entire world going around making amends for things they didn't do? Would you want your child to be forced to atone for things you've done?

Don’t be ridiculous.

I did our family tree at Christmas. If you go back far enough there are east India trading company links. I was brought up as one of four children on a crap council estate with a mum who worked two jobs as a cleaner and a dad who worked long hours in a factory.

shall I tell my parents they need to fork out cash and wallow in guilt for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

I think it’s fairly obvious she is talking about the ones who became rich off the trade not those conceived in rape who I presume didn’t become millionaires

I think it's a difficult call but my family profited greatly from the slave trade in the UK through the cotton industry with a fair few houses and factories built off the back of the misery of others. My family own none of this now and my life s very very ordinary; full time work, kids, house etc. I certainly couldn't afford to visit a plantation or start an education initiative but completely acknowledge the part my forebears played. There are still descendants of black enslaved families who are at a disadvantage to their white counterparts due to generations trauma. I think their needs to be some reparation definitely but I don't know how it would work. I didn't like what I read about my family history but can't do anything with that information other than acknowledge it and try to make myself a better human for that knowledge.

Actually there was a really powerful article recently by a man whose family were nazis and he was trying to come to terms with that and the damage they were involved in. Japan as a nation and Germany have both done soul searching and acknowledged their pasts. The Netherlands acknowledged their part in the trade. It’s a shame that others feel they are too special to do that

Its not about atoning or being punished it’s about telling the truth and acknowledging.

I think by definition being charitable has to be something you do because you want to. This isn't an unreasonable motivation for Laura Trevalyan to do what she is doing.

No one is responsible for things that happened before they were born. I don't see what good comes from pushing people to do this and make pointless apologies for something they haven't done.

True, maybe the descendants of the Vikings can visit us and see or meet the results of their raping and pillaging.
Where do we draw a line under history?

This is how I feel. We should all be aware of history and the injustices that took place.

But forcing someone to apologise is utterly meaningless. If someone wronged you and they were forced to apologise and didnt genuinely feel it or mean it, I doubt that would make you feel any better at all. Let alone asking someone to apologise for something they didnt even do.

You cant force people to feel empathy. What you can do on the other hand is educate people and then let them sit with information so they can make their own decision about it.

@Aussieland

That's great for that chap if it was his choice - but it shouldn't at all be an expectation of everyone. You don't pick your parents / lineage and there shouldn't be any requirement to deal with the actions of your dead ancestors.

People can acknowledge the slave trade, but I don't think anyone "should" do anything as per the OP (especially as it always seems to be linked to money). Forcing people to do it isn't going to have any great impact, it'll just cause tensions. A forced apology / learning isn't true.

And where does it stop? This generation? The next?

@rowernoke if someone's great grandad went to prison, should their descendants go an experience that too?

Yep, and we could invite some Italians, because of the Roman invasion, and not forgetting the French lol 🙄

This a really interesting greatly OP. I mean that sincerely. Do you have any family who profited or were on the other side as enslaved people@rowernoke .

It's more about why their generational wealth should possibly be shared. I'm not saying that I totally agree.
I don't know were our royal family and aristocracy would even start with that one.
I agree that we need to stop celebrating and admiring the hoarding of wealth, though.

Many slaves were sold into slavery by other black Africans. Their descendants should be forced to visit former plantations too.

I'm against forcing people to go anywhere really

I don’t mean to sound trite @rowernoke but isn’t this post a bit of a self-completing argument?

Of course technically these people should do this. Especially if it would engender the same reaction as this Laura Trevelyan person had.

However what’s more important is, why don’t similar people do this same journey?

Perhaps because they are not ex journalists, especially at the end of their career arc. Perhaps because they don’t have “main character” syndrome and believe that everyone will forgive them.

I note this paragraph from the Guardian article:

“ Some people were understandably upset to be confronted with the face of slave ownership, and wanted to know why we were giving such a small amount of money compared with the wealth our ancestors had accumulated. “

So it’s not all rainbows and butterflies .

my point is, you’re assuming everyone is like Trevelyan. Many may be in industries with families where doing this significantly harms them. Do you expect people to make that level of self sacrifice even if it is technically and historically just?

No it's just pointless virtue signalling.
White bashing.
Why not concentrat on the wrongdoings of the current times rather than the past we can't change. You know, like the treatment of women and girls certain parts of the world?