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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nursery issue

50 replies

SammySquirrell12 · 30/07/2024 22:43

I had a bit of an issue at my son's nursery yesterday that keeps playing on my mind. Before I mention anything at pick up this evening, I wanted to speak to other parents who would be able to offer me their thoughts/opinions on what happened.

So, my little boy has been going to his nursery for two years and is very settled and happy there. I normally find the nursery great, with one or two of the staff that work there a little below average, but the rest of them are so wonderful you don't really mind that.

One of the women who work there (but not in my son's toddlers room) isn't great. Whenever I see her I find her a bit rude and very different in energy to the other members of staff. Nothing terrible, just never says hello when I say hello to her, has ignored my son when he has said hello and goodbye to her, very abrupt tone - that sort of thing. As I say, none of it an issue, but it is noticeable.

On occasion, when I have picked my son up on a warm day, he will be in the garden with the other kids from all the different age groups. This woman works in the baby room, and her daughter has also been there in the garden at pick up time. I would say her daughter is maybe around 14 years old. She may be slightly older, but I would say definitely no older than 16 (and I would be shocked if she even was 16).

I don't know what she is doing there, but it's been often enough for it to be noticeable and for me to have clocked who she is and her to know my son's name etc. I've not loved her energy, as I've seen her shout across the garden to kids (my son included) in a bit of an intimidating way. Nothing that she said, but she is talking to very very small children and the way she was talking didn't seem appropriate, but again - something I noticed and thought was a bit off, but whatever.

Yesterday, she was in the garden again when I went to pick my son up. I was with him as he was messing around with a toy, and she came over, stood really close to him and said "Can I have a cuddle?". It's hard to explain here, but she didn't bend down or soften her voice at all, and was standing so close to him that I can imagine it would've been intimidating. Basically, someone much much taller than you, standing about 6 inches away from you asking in quite a harsh tone for a cuddle. He looked a little hesitant, but gave her a cuddle. She then said "did you tell your mummy you wet yourself today?".

Now, this is what has annoyed me. He is potty training at the moment and has been having a bit of a hard time with accidents when he is at nursery. we are keeping everything positive in speech to him around this and is very much celebrating when he does manage it and "not to worry, we'll try next time" when he doesn't. Her tone and what she said is the complete antithesis of what I am trying to do with his potty training (it sounded quite shaming), but also why on earth is another kid getting involved in this? She doesn't work there, should not be reporting to me about anything to do with my child, and also shouldn't be speaking to him to get him to tell me.

I immediately cut in, moved him to one side of me and said "we know all about them, thanks" and moved the conversation on.

I get the feeling she is there as the mother doesn't have childcare for her kid, but regardless, she isn't trained or employed by the nursery, and shouldn't be reporting to parents in any way what their kid has been up to - let alone like that.

Any thoughts on the legality or proper processes around having untrained teenagers in a nursery setting?

Thank you!!

OP posts:
Nottodaythankyou123 · 31/07/2024 06:53

She may have been being supervised but seems like a safeguarding breach that she knows about potty training etc. was she the one who dealt with it and that’s how she knew? I’m not sure I’d be too thrilled about that. I sometimes find some of the posts on here about nursery a bit precious, but I think anything involving intimate care is a huge red line.

Starlingexpress · 31/07/2024 07:04

Definitely raise it with the manager.

And brace yourself for the onslaught of criticism of your wording about ‘below average staff’ 😉I totally get what you mean-when you have brilliant nursery staff, the ones who aren’t as warm or engaging or pleasant stand out. It’s not a crime to use that description in the context of your post ( but that won’t stop the hate 😉)!

autienotnaughty · 31/07/2024 07:04

No you are not overreacting. I'd request a meeting with the manager and tell them what happened. Stick to facts and explain why you are uncomfortable.

RunningThroughMyHead · 31/07/2024 07:05

None of that sounds good. And you say one of the baby room members of staff ignores your child's hello's. That's not ok and not acceptable. I would be talking to the manager about ALL of it.

But I couldn't send my child somewhere I didn't feel assured was a positive and safe environment. Have you got any options to look around elsewhere?

SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 10:57

Update: I spoke to the manager and explained my concerns. She was great and completely agreed with me. She seemed just as annoyed about it as I was and was horrified to hear what had happened.

The child is actually around 11/12 and is only there as her mother (who works there) doesn't have child care for the summer holidays. The manager (without me needing to point anything out) said it was a safeguarding issue and how on earth did the child know about something that didn't happen in front of her.

She's going to speak to her superiors and get back to me.

OP posts:
SavingNotSpending · 31/07/2024 11:10

Howtoeatanelephant · 31/07/2024 06:20

"with one or two of the staff that work there a little below average, but the rest of them are so wonderful you don't really mind that."

What on earth does that mean? Below average intelligence? Looks? Juggling skills?
What a nasty, judgy statement and nothing to do with your actual point

OP quite clearly means that they are “below average” in how they are with the children generally. Why would she be talking about their looks or intelligence…

She is also absolutely allowed to make that kind of statement when it’s about people who are involved in looking after her child. What a weird post.

Howtoeatanelephant · 31/07/2024 11:11

Starlingexpress · 31/07/2024 07:04

Definitely raise it with the manager.

And brace yourself for the onslaught of criticism of your wording about ‘below average staff’ 😉I totally get what you mean-when you have brilliant nursery staff, the ones who aren’t as warm or engaging or pleasant stand out. It’s not a crime to use that description in the context of your post ( but that won’t stop the hate 😉)!

I asked about that, and am awaiting an answer. Nothing wrong with trying to find out what @SammySquirrell12 meant by that comment, particularly as unrelated to aibu point.
Not hate (but don't let reality get in the way of a goady comment!)

SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 11:53

Howtoeatanelephant · 31/07/2024 11:11

I asked about that, and am awaiting an answer. Nothing wrong with trying to find out what @SammySquirrell12 meant by that comment, particularly as unrelated to aibu point.
Not hate (but don't let reality get in the way of a goady comment!)

Edited

Apologies for not answering you on this. I had thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't talking about this persons looks, intelligence or juggling skills. Had it been a modelling or circus competition, perhaps there would've been a need to respond to clarify.

I did say that in comparison to the other wonderful staff there, one or two of them aren't great, and then went on to say that I've found her rude and has ignored my son when he has tried to speak to her and is quite abrupt. I would've thought that in a nursery setting with kids from 3 months to 5 years, engaging with the children in a pleasant manner was part of the personality traits that would make you good at your job. As this isn't the case with this particular woman, and the fact she is around my child, I am entitled to have an opinion of her based on my experiences with her, without that being unnecessarily judgemental.

In terms of it not being part of my actual point, I was trying to set the scene of the whole situation. This child who commented to my son, is the child of this woman. I think that is relevant - especially as really none of this is the girls fault (she is 11/12 years old), it is the nursery and her mother's responsibility. Therefore setting the scene and trying to give details to paint a picture of the situation there.

I hope this has cleared up what I meant.

OP posts:
SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 11:54

SavingNotSpending · 31/07/2024 11:10

OP quite clearly means that they are “below average” in how they are with the children generally. Why would she be talking about their looks or intelligence…

She is also absolutely allowed to make that kind of statement when it’s about people who are involved in looking after her child. What a weird post.

Yeah, I think pretty weird to even make a leap that I would be talking about someone's looks when I am clearly pointing out the issue. Oh well!

OP posts:
SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 11:57

RunningThroughMyHead · 31/07/2024 07:05

None of that sounds good. And you say one of the baby room members of staff ignores your child's hello's. That's not ok and not acceptable. I would be talking to the manager about ALL of it.

But I couldn't send my child somewhere I didn't feel assured was a positive and safe environment. Have you got any options to look around elsewhere?

I know what you mean, but I think for the moment I wouldn't look around. He is settled there and has one more year before he starts school. He has made some really good connections there, and everyone who is based in his class are actually really lovely.

I think also based on how they deal with this will be my indicator. If after a complaint (which they seem to be taking very seriously) nothing has changed, that might be the signal to look around.

It's so hard though isn't it?! Argh!

OP posts:
Starlingexpress · 31/07/2024 12:58

Howtoeatanelephant · 31/07/2024 11:11

I asked about that, and am awaiting an answer. Nothing wrong with trying to find out what @SammySquirrell12 meant by that comment, particularly as unrelated to aibu point.
Not hate (but don't let reality get in the way of a goady comment!)

Edited

The staff member she referred to is the mother of the child who made the comment. Fairly relevant to be honest 😉

NewName24 · 31/07/2024 13:42

It was perfectly clear what you meant @SammySquirrell12 . At least to everyone except @Howtoeatanelephant .

RunningThroughMyHead · 31/07/2024 13:49

SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 11:57

I know what you mean, but I think for the moment I wouldn't look around. He is settled there and has one more year before he starts school. He has made some really good connections there, and everyone who is based in his class are actually really lovely.

I think also based on how they deal with this will be my indicator. If after a complaint (which they seem to be taking very seriously) nothing has changed, that might be the signal to look around.

It's so hard though isn't it?! Argh!

Yes it's really hard. I think my problem would be they it's likely all the staff and management are aware 1) baby room staff member has a poor attitude to the children 2) the teen is spending considerable time with the children. The fact that they've not done anything to address this makes me suspicious that there's poor safeguarding and management of issues.

I'd therefore not feel safe sending my child there.

But it's really hard when you don't have options and when it works on lots of ways.

SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 14:15

RunningThroughMyHead · 31/07/2024 13:49

Yes it's really hard. I think my problem would be they it's likely all the staff and management are aware 1) baby room staff member has a poor attitude to the children 2) the teen is spending considerable time with the children. The fact that they've not done anything to address this makes me suspicious that there's poor safeguarding and management of issues.

I'd therefore not feel safe sending my child there.

But it's really hard when you don't have options and when it works on lots of ways.

Yeah, all very good points. I think I will definitely be keeping an even closer eye on them after this and asking more questions. I've seen this girl around before (during summer holidays) and turned a blind eye, but none of that any more. I hadn't really thought too much into it, but it's certainly now raised questions for me in terms of safeguarding and general process.

How they deal with it will be a real teller for me.

OP posts:
Howtoeatanelephant · 31/07/2024 14:45

Starlingexpress · 31/07/2024 12:58

The staff member she referred to is the mother of the child who made the comment. Fairly relevant to be honest 😉

The comment I was asking the OP to explain was the one about a 'couple of staff are below average', nothing to do with the rest of the post. I understood who said what to whom

Fedup369 · 31/07/2024 14:53

SammySquirrell12 · 30/07/2024 22:43

I had a bit of an issue at my son's nursery yesterday that keeps playing on my mind. Before I mention anything at pick up this evening, I wanted to speak to other parents who would be able to offer me their thoughts/opinions on what happened.

So, my little boy has been going to his nursery for two years and is very settled and happy there. I normally find the nursery great, with one or two of the staff that work there a little below average, but the rest of them are so wonderful you don't really mind that.

One of the women who work there (but not in my son's toddlers room) isn't great. Whenever I see her I find her a bit rude and very different in energy to the other members of staff. Nothing terrible, just never says hello when I say hello to her, has ignored my son when he has said hello and goodbye to her, very abrupt tone - that sort of thing. As I say, none of it an issue, but it is noticeable.

On occasion, when I have picked my son up on a warm day, he will be in the garden with the other kids from all the different age groups. This woman works in the baby room, and her daughter has also been there in the garden at pick up time. I would say her daughter is maybe around 14 years old. She may be slightly older, but I would say definitely no older than 16 (and I would be shocked if she even was 16).

I don't know what she is doing there, but it's been often enough for it to be noticeable and for me to have clocked who she is and her to know my son's name etc. I've not loved her energy, as I've seen her shout across the garden to kids (my son included) in a bit of an intimidating way. Nothing that she said, but she is talking to very very small children and the way she was talking didn't seem appropriate, but again - something I noticed and thought was a bit off, but whatever.

Yesterday, she was in the garden again when I went to pick my son up. I was with him as he was messing around with a toy, and she came over, stood really close to him and said "Can I have a cuddle?". It's hard to explain here, but she didn't bend down or soften her voice at all, and was standing so close to him that I can imagine it would've been intimidating. Basically, someone much much taller than you, standing about 6 inches away from you asking in quite a harsh tone for a cuddle. He looked a little hesitant, but gave her a cuddle. She then said "did you tell your mummy you wet yourself today?".

Now, this is what has annoyed me. He is potty training at the moment and has been having a bit of a hard time with accidents when he is at nursery. we are keeping everything positive in speech to him around this and is very much celebrating when he does manage it and "not to worry, we'll try next time" when he doesn't. Her tone and what she said is the complete antithesis of what I am trying to do with his potty training (it sounded quite shaming), but also why on earth is another kid getting involved in this? She doesn't work there, should not be reporting to me about anything to do with my child, and also shouldn't be speaking to him to get him to tell me.

I immediately cut in, moved him to one side of me and said "we know all about them, thanks" and moved the conversation on.

I get the feeling she is there as the mother doesn't have childcare for her kid, but regardless, she isn't trained or employed by the nursery, and shouldn't be reporting to parents in any way what their kid has been up to - let alone like that.

Any thoughts on the legality or proper processes around having untrained teenagers in a nursery setting?

Thank you!!

I have a feeling if it were a 14 year old boy hanging about a lot more parents would have a problem, it's entirely inappropriate the way she's spoken to you, but she's just a kid, probably imitating the actual staff in her own way. She meant no harm I imagine.

However, I would be expressing with nursery management that's it's not right to have an untrained, and non DBS checked person around the children. Like others said she's old enough to be at home alone or with grandma or a friend. Hanging about nursery in the summer holiday hardly seems like a 14 year olds girl ideal day to spend the summer.

Ive always loved kids but I'd have rather been at home chilling that pondering around playing with stickle bricks when I was 14

PrettyPines · 31/07/2024 18:11

Struggling with childcare doesn't mean the child can come to work with the lady surely?! I wouldn't be happy with this in terms of safeguarding.

SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 18:40

PrettyPines · 31/07/2024 18:11

Struggling with childcare doesn't mean the child can come to work with the lady surely?! I wouldn't be happy with this in terms of safeguarding.

I know, it’s pretty mad! I mean, I get the childcare struggle as a working mother, but no way could I bring my kid to work…and I don’t work with kids, so no safeguarding issues!

OP posts:
PoopedAndScooped · 31/07/2024 22:56

SammySquirrell12 · 30/07/2024 23:17

Thank you. Just to clarify, there was an adult present - one in the garden (who at this point was speaking to another parent) and her mother was just inside the door to the garden speaking to another parent. So she wasn't alone with the children per se. Do you think that makes a difference in your professional opinion?

How many children and how many staff were actually present

Not including the teenager obviously

PoopedAndScooped · 31/07/2024 22:56

SammySquirrell12 · 30/07/2024 22:53

Do you think I'm right in thinking it's unacceptable for the kid to be there? I mean, we all have childcare issues from time to time, but I also expect to send my child to a nursery full of trained professionals - and adults! She isn't looking after the kids, but clearly is getting too involved.

She 100% shouldnt be there

Even if she hasnt got childcare then leave her in the staff room but they wouldnt have insurance for this either

Rocksaltrita · 31/07/2024 23:09

I would remove my child. All trust is gone. Why is the manager unaware that this has been going on? Where have they been?! Had Ofsted turned up for an unannounced visit, they would have had to explain who the girl was. It is their responsibility to know who is on the premises at all times. The girl will not have a DBS check. She has also behaved inappropriately - asking for cuddles and raising your son’s potty training with him - appalling. I would report all of this to Ofsted and leave asap. I wouldn’t be quiet if asked why I was leaving by other parents.

surreygirl1987 · 31/07/2024 23:25

SavingNotSpending · 31/07/2024 11:10

OP quite clearly means that they are “below average” in how they are with the children generally. Why would she be talking about their looks or intelligence…

She is also absolutely allowed to make that kind of statement when it’s about people who are involved in looking after her child. What a weird post.

Completely agree. It was completely obvious what she meant. Some of of my son's teachers are below-average too.

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 31/07/2024 23:27

Never mind, some reason your update skipped me.

At least the nursery are taking it seriously

surreygirl1987 · 31/07/2024 23:28

SammySquirrell12 · 31/07/2024 10:57

Update: I spoke to the manager and explained my concerns. She was great and completely agreed with me. She seemed just as annoyed about it as I was and was horrified to hear what had happened.

The child is actually around 11/12 and is only there as her mother (who works there) doesn't have child care for the summer holidays. The manager (without me needing to point anything out) said it was a safeguarding issue and how on earth did the child know about something that didn't happen in front of her.

She's going to speak to her superiors and get back to me.

Good, well done. But the fact that this was allowed at all in the first place is very poor. I'd be keeping a very close eye.

PoopedAndScooped · 01/08/2024 08:45

Sorry but the manager was not as ‘just annoyed as you’

She knew full well that the child is there and has allowed this!
This is a huge concern that Ofsted should know about

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