Confused about VAT and wraparound care

[billyjo]

My DD goes to wraparound care 3 days a week. She's at a state primary but the wraparound care (for all the local primaries) and holiday club is provided through the local prep school.

She does things like football and crafts there.

I'm confused as to whether I'll now be charged VAT of these costs

And added to this private schools lose their charitable status (and the vast majority really are not companies : there are no shareholders or anyone making a profit : the fees literally just pay for the running of the school and that’s it, supervised by a board of governors (who are volunteers)).

Losing their charitable status will likely mean that private schools need to switch from cost recovery charging to cost recovery for business rates.

so the cost of swimming/lamda/everything else the private school is used for by outside providers will go up as well as a potential vat liability

@MyNameIsFine the invoice is addressed to the private school

Just read the next page of the link you posted. 2.16. After and before school care not included.

This is what confuses me that refers to
only if it is solely childcare. She does do football in one session which seems to be treated differently.

Very confused!

No VAT is to be applied of extras such as

nursery care
wraparound care
meals
holiday clubs
extra curricular clubs provided by a third party within a school

Only tuition fees and boarding fees.

So if the kids sit around doing nothing (aka childcare) it's not charged but if they are playing sport, doing music or ballet, it will be.

I have kids at private school and tbh the policy is annoying but not the end of the world for me but these are some significant problems.

This is what my understanding is based on the technical note that was posted online.

That's not true - it says the preschool (ie. Nursery) of a private school is liable. And the situation re. wraparound care is not straightforward.

If they're not being 'formally trained' in football they're exempt.

Please don't panic OP. The législation doesn't include wrap around care. It's only if your children do à football club, or something, that you might get caught.

it says the preschool (ie. Nursery) of a private school is liable

No it doesn't. See 2.9

There are two parts to the labour changes Vat and Business rates.

Business rates are currently charged at 20% labour wish to change that to 100%. The school will be able to choose exactly how they recoup that additional cost. I suspect they will look at who pays what and what can be increased without reducing attendees and will increase cost on that basis.

VAT is different, the government will choose who will now be VAT able. Its still up to the school to decide who ultimately pays for it, but some things will be potentially exempt.

The government have Issued their draft for this and frankly as expected it is an empty document thats been rushed to get it out as their sole focus is implementing it quickly which to do so in Octber the draft needed go be out now.

These are the documents anything else is irrelevant and interpretive. All could still change in the development.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-on-private-school-fees-removing-the-charitable-rates-relief-for-private-schools

@MyNameIsFine she does one day a week. They do different things each day. My DD goes three days and on those days they do football, crafts, forest school - it changes termly 😬😬

What does that mean 😬😬

A PE teacher from the school does a football session 🤷‍♀️

Do you pay extra for the football?

@MyNameIsFine

No all wraparound care sessions cost the same. I get an invoice every month for how many sessions she's been to that month.

If they bring in a coach to do the football and charge you for it, they'll have to add VAT. If a PE teacher kicks a football round with the kids for free in after school club, then no VAT - in fact, you should still be able to pay for it with tax free childcare. It makes no sense at all, but I think you're safe.

Sorry! You're quite right.

But how can football taught by a school PE teacher be exempt?!

Gosh, that's à pretty amazing afterschool club. How do I get my children in 😁

@MyNameIsFine

It's great they are essentially the after school provider for four local primaries in addition to their own children.

I wonder now if it's part of what they do for their charity status.

In the interests of factual accuracy I would like to point out that half of private schools are companies not charities. Presumably run with the aim of making a profit.

But how can football taught by a school PE teacher be exempt?!

Because it's not formal education or training.

My fees bill lists school lunches and trips separately.

Certain clubs are billed (largely to cover extra costs eg booking a climbing wall, I think) but many are not eg chess club.

So it will be straightforward to put VAT on the fees but not the lunches, say.

Thanks Sheila, that's not the case for many private schools. I think the way of thinking is that if absolutely everything, including trips, are included in fees then those children on bursaries never have to miss out.
It's my experience that many schools do this.

Do none of the private school children attend wrap around care?

My understanding is if it's a club that purely looks after children no VAT, if it educates in anyway, even if its arts and crafts it will be VATable.

Reason I asked if the private school children also attend the after school club, I'm not sure most would be happy for it to just fulfill childcare alone. Our girls omly stay if there is a club they wish to attend that evening, its an extension of their education albeit often a sport education.