Help settle an argument about correct / safe sun screen practice?

[ConfusedAboutSunscreen]

My kids are both very fair (one is freckley the other very pale with white-blonde hair). Have so far managed to avoid them getting sunburnt by being strict about hats / staying out of sun 10 - 2, covering up, etc. I have also got very pale skin w/ rosacea and gotten burned a few times and it hurts so much so really want to avoid this happening to my kids.

Extended family were going to a lake today with a beach and I was applying suncream really thickly. Kids looked like ghosts! My brother said it needs to be rubbed in a bit. My thinking is that a thicker layer prevents burning for longer. It got quite heated (no pun intended). Am just using Soltan / Ambre Solaire for kids stuff from Boots as is my brother for his family. If I am wrong I would actually be quite happy as I don't want to waste it as it isn't cheap!!

YABU - it's fine to rub it in
YANBU - thicker layer protects the skin for longer

As an aside I remember when I was small we had "sun block" but this doesn't seem to exist anymore? Does more-than-factor-50 exist? I was thinking of the Australian cricketers with that green stuff on their faces which they didn't rub in? Maybe should use this...

Depending on the brand it does need rubbed in.

The coloured stuff cricketers wear is zinc but it comes in a stick (like lipstick) so hard to spread. Factor 50 on the face should work along with good sun sense. Top up regularly.

Use more than you think, so more than moisturiser for example. You aren’t trying to rub it in like body lotion.

But more so- use physical sun blocks- sun shirts that block the sun. That way you don’t need to use so much chemical on them, spend so much, or make them stand still as long!

No, that’s not really how the sun cream works. You can safely rub it in but still use a fair bit. If you want physical protection, then cover them up with clothes. You don’t need to waste the lotion for that.

A thicker layer does not prevent burning for longer. You’re supposed to put cream on half an hour before you go into the sun, then again when you get there, then again every hour or so.

Family history of skin cancer here and my dermatologist advised me to apply sunscreen thoroughly half an hour before you go into the sun and smooth it in gently. I do it as part of getting dressed to make sure every bit of skin is covered. Reapply every couple of hours and every time you've been in the water but as PP said, clothing is better and staying out of the sun is best of all.

I'm team rub it in

Have a look at Badger Suncream. Expensive but organic. Works well for my fair skinned children.

I'd be rubbing the cream in though. Factor 30 is also sufficient.

I’m not sure I’m understanding - are you using a normal sun cream but putting it on like paint and leaving it sticky and liquid on top of skin? I don’t know anyone that does this - everyone I know rubs it in like body cream - we do use quite a bit but not so you can still see it once rubbed in and my very pale dd has not burnt (also only re-apply every 3 hours probably in England)

You can get higher factors - I really like the neutrogena factor 70 that you can get in the USA - we stock up on holiday - I think you also can get it online.

Rub it in! Obviously use enough for decent coverage. Apply 30 minutes before going in the sun and reapply after swimming/every 2 hours. No one needs a factor higher than 50, probably not even 30 especially if you’re that strict on staying out of the sun between 10-2 (think I’d have a mutiny on my hands if I told mine that!).

Do your kids not say anything op? If I leave even the tiniest bit of white on my nearly 6 year old he's hysterically howling mummy RUB IT IN.

I have one pale child, we always rub the sunscreen in well 15 minutes before going outside, then reapply frequently and always after being in the water. He also wears a uv safe shirt and always wear a hat:

Mountain Warehouse Kids Rash Vest - UV Protection Rash Guard, Long Sleeves Childrens Rash Shirt, Flat Seams, Quick Drying, Stretch Fabric - Ideal for Swimming, amzn.eu/d/03nRRd2Q amzn.eu/d/03nRRd2Q

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p089k7js

I've always rubbed it in but I'm quite relaxed about a bit of sun exposure in moderation. Leaving it on thickly probably protects slightly better but not proportionately to how much more cream you're using/wasting.

I do prefer hats and natural shade (eg picnicking in the shade of a tree) together with sunblock rather than relying solely on sunblock though. Or as a pp said, cover up with clothing.

Sunblock sweats off so easily when it's hot.

Rub it in op, I’m not convinced it’s doing any more good with you not. Use ‘all day’ suncream if it helps you feel better, you can always pop it on once in the morning and again after lunch if it makes you feel any better but tbh, you sound a bit paranoid to me, we all do need a bit of sun on the skin- even just 10 mins here and there. Be careful not to pass on this anxiety to your kids- are they really never outside between 11 and 2?

Have you tried the P20 or Calypso Once A Day?
I'm a Ginger with very fair skin, burn at under a hot bulb type person. I've used both in the UK, Europe and Caribbean and not burnt. You do have to make sure you cover every bit or you will get caught out, but I've not had to reapply during the day or after swimming.

Rub it in, but remember to re apply every few hours.

Ds is white blonde and very fair skin, me too. We use an all day factor 50 but top it up too. All day would be Ultrasun

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ultrasun-50-SPF-Extreme-100/dp/B01BKF2K0G

then topping up later in the day we use a spray but not Ambre Solaire which feels sticky. We use Coppertone Sport which copes well with sweat. We have used this for years in Florida and been out all day but hats on to protect from the harsh heat.

We put the all day on them when they were just in their underwear, wait the specified time then dress them.

You need to work out how long they can be in the sun without burning, without any sun protection. Then multiply that by the SPF factor. Whatever that number is, is the max. minutes they can be in the sun regardless of how much you put on, so if they have a burn time of 5 minutes and you use SPF 50, you get 5x50=250 minutes, just over 4 hours.

Application-wise, follow the instructions on the bottle- some manufacturers are different, but you do need a fair bit, and quite a lot need to be rubbed in, as they "bond" with the skin to protect it. Some of the kids stuff if coloured so you can see where you've missed bits.

The highest SPF allowed to be marketed in the UK is 50+ (following Australian principles). This is because a higher factor apparently makes people complacent and they don't reapply it and end up worse off.

Worth reading any of the online guidance as most people don't use enough or frequently enough....even once a day rubs off of some areas like the face as you wipe your brow....
NHS guidelines below

lol your poor kids must look brilliant if it gets dark.

Rub it in lol

This is about a study of how it is less effective if applied too thinly.

You're meant to rub it in. The instructions say something about it reacting with something in the skin to activate the protection.

Surely spf is less effective if you don’t rub it in? Because then anything you touch or rub up against just rubs it off?

You might be being a bit OTT with the thick layer and not rubbing it in but better than the opposite.

Basically there are 2 types of sunscreen. One is based on chemical prevention which absorb UV rays and the other physical (e.g zinc/minerals) which reflect them away. Physical ones tend to be harder to rub in and can leave white marks but with nano particles in many sunscreens now that is less of an issue. Many sunscreens have both.

SPF rating only protects from UVB so you need something that also covers UVA - shown by a star rating and "UVA" in a circle. All need to be applied in larger quantity than most people realised and regularly. Do no trust "one a day" creams or waterproof, they can still be washed off or be rubbed off with friction for towels, clothing and sand.

SPF refers to how long it would prevent burning compared to not using sunscreen, but it's variable as if you are very fair and burn easily you'll need a higher SPF and apply it more often than someone who doesn't burn quickly.
Here's some advice:
https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/patient-guide/leaflets/files/121203skinandsun.pdf

https://www.britishskinfoundation.org.uk/blog/sunscreen-explained

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/sun-uv-and-cancer/sun-safety

I grew up in New Zealand and we have it drummed into us from a young age to use high factor sunscreen, cover up, wear hats and not get burnt. I did as I hated being sunburnt but still have sun damaged skin and my sister has had to have some pre cancerous skin cells removed. British people seem to be very blase about sun damage. (For Vitamin D, 10 minutes in normal daylight without sunscreen on is enough for most people to top up to normal levels).

It needs to be rubbed in otherwise it'll just come off, surely?

I have fair skin and work outdoors, I wear sunscreen everyday from April to October (year round on my face) and never burn. I use Factor 50 in the morning half an hour before I go out, then Factor 30 every two hours or so. Always rubbed in thoroughly.

I also get a mole check once a year at the GP to put my mind at rest, never had any issues despite all my family being very "moley" people.