Free breakfast clubs for ALL primary school children? Why?

[Safi7]

I’ve been overseas since the election so a bit out of the loop, but is it true that Labour are going to make it standard that all primary schools must now offer free breakfasts to all children, regardless of need?

Fair enough for children from deprived families - but all children?

Where is the money for this coming from?

Are Labour actually saying that in 2024, its now to much to expect parents to actually bother to feed their own children breakfast? This responsibility can just be pushed onto schools instead - as if they haven’t got enough on? Teachers are leaving in droves as it is. Du much is out in them - the jobs is becoming more like social work in too many cases. Who will staff these breakfast clubs and make sure kids are actually eating?

Surely this is just encouraging lazy parenting - ie parents who can well afford cereal / toast / eggs etc it but just won’t bother if their kids can eat at school instead. Plus children will be dumped at school earlier than necessary, just because parents can now get away with it?

Surely it’s better to direct resources where they are actually needed, rather than turn schools into free cafes? Makes no sense.

@Safi7 Think about all the London commuters, who earn hundreds of thousands, who will put their kids there just to catch the earlier train from Esher or whatever into the city, etc. This type of thing.

but they are kinda going to have to use this as a universal ‘solution’ kills other service providers short of a personal nanny. Then in 4 or so years time when the policy changes, no alternative is available. Add in that the hours offered may be shorter and those commuters are negatively impacted. And lol at those people who think that 25 or 30 minutes cuts it - 7.30 at my child’s breakfast club saw a queue at the door to drop off, followed by a run to the car park and exits with wheels spinning. The notion of working 5 minutes from school or starting at 9.30 is alien to me. Plus every commuter knows that that 30 minute drive at 7.30 will be an hour plus at 8.00.

We do have a hall - it is a classroom too, no canteen or kitchen either. So our club is held in one or two classrooms with the teachers having to prepare around it. No cleaning can be done in either room as a result.

We have a booking system but parents do not use it and do not even inform school. They just arrive or leave their kids after school and phone calls have to be made. Causing a lack of food and food waste often.

Where do they get the extra staff from in your school if more book on?
So are staff shopping in an evening to ensure food is ready for each day? Are staff paid for all that shopping time?

Ours turn up despite there being a booking system. They leave them after school too. It causes many issues with lack of food. Ours is in classrooms at the moment and impacts on staff setting up or after school preparing for the next day. All resources have to be put on the side and can't be set up.

As for kids touching things - I can put 20 pencils out in a morning and the next morning they are gone - mixed up in club stuff as the kids help themselves to my stuff and then put them back into the club cupboard. Cleaning is also an issue as you can't clean when the kids are in...wonder if parents will be ok with a lack of cleaning.

I never mentioned the free fruit and milk.

Also milk isn't free!

If you’re talking to me, I’m just talking about the future. At my school, we currently have enough children for 1 member of supervising staff and if any more want to come, they can’t. I was just saying that if everyone is going to be entitled to a place, in future, then we will have to have some sort of booking system otherwise it’ll be mayhem.

No staff are shopping for food in the evenings-there enough bread and cereal in the kitchens for the number we can manage each day. Obviously this would need to be tightened up if a potential 400 more kids might come!

How about a decent cereal bar, a banana, a frube and an individual small cheese portion in paper bags-easy to assemble, no cooking , all rubbish to go back in the bag

Oh and a carton of decent multi vit juice (Lidl do them)

How about a decent cereal bar, a banana, a frube and an individual small cheese portion in paper bags-easy to assemble, no cooking , all rubbish to go back in the bag

As a breakfast? It’s not great but there’s worse. But it’s difficult to implement logistically if you’re talking about hundreds of kids, let alone more. Frubes need refrigerating, so does cheese. Bananas are difficult to time for ripeness. Assembling hundreds of paper bags isn’t difficult but it is time and space - consuming. I’m not trying to pick holes but this is a version of my job - I run a food bank, including getting breakfasts to schools, so I’m embroiled in food logistics all day. Bananas are my kryptonite 😉

I think you’ve raised some valid points however as you have worked in child protection you’ll know that not all neglect is visible, there are children in very middle class homes that suffer neglect and it goes overlooked. So with this being open to all, all children benefit. Maybe we should stop thinking about the positives for parents, but for the children. It’s a great levelling upper, and by being open to all children in need won’t be othered.

Depends how much the government fund schools, really. That money will have to pay for the staff as well as the food.

I wasn’t saying that you did mention it. I was agreeing with you re: logistics and practicalities of which catering to uncertain numbers is one. There is terrible food waste of ‘free’ resources already at my child’s primary. The milk and fruit there ARE free to infants. I know that can vary per school.

There is plenty of money for everyone. Just because poverty has always existed doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for society where every kid has enough food. Obviously working parents need a breakfast club but I’m specifically talking about clubs funded by the state due to child poverty. It is not ok that in the UK kids are going to school hungry. The cause of this needs to be addressed in the first place so funds can be spent on prevention rather than cure.

Ahh sorry I misunderstood there! Yes there is a huge waste, our fruit arrives rotten in many cases and we bin so much of it. Yes if you have uncertain numbers and fresh food then that will cause huge amounts to go uneaten which is a real waste.

Milk is free up to the age of 5 and so within the infants (up to 7) if parents want milk after that then they pay. So some kids who are older in reception have to pay, some who are younger do not.

There’s never been more book on in my experience. It’s always within a certain range and I assume they plan for more staff just in case. But there are quite a lot of teaching assistants in the school, and then because there’s a nursery class there’s even more assistants there due to the lower ratios so there’s actually plenty of staff for it.
And kids just aren’t accepted if they’re early and not booked on. It really sounds like some of the parents at your school have no respect for the staff which is a shame.
At ours there’s a school canteen and all the breakfast food gets ordered in with the normal lunch catering. No staff member is ever having to do shopping for supplies.
I suspect that the people instigating this are just used to schools that work as mine does (which I suppose is actually the most common situation) and haven’t even considered what schools without a canteen or dining hall will do!

You mean they expect staff to give up their evening and cancel commitments? Only when it comes to an emergency does that happen at ours (club staff sickness for example) not as routine to cover daily hours.

All staff at ours are offered it but if no one takes it up then club is closed that evening. If staff do then they can't be paid but are given time back at ours.

Oh yes some do take the mick at ours but there is no way a child can be left on the doorstep as that is a safeguarding issue.

Staff have to do shopping at ours as there is no kitchen so no supplies. They buy once a week and if extra come then they struggle.

Yup ppl assume all schools are the same not that some teachers have to start at 6am to ensure that they have time to set up because of the club being in their room!

when you look at the poor quality of what is offered and the logistics, need for staff and very valid point that commuters going to well paid job will be together enough to avail of the service (which I just can’t believe. It’s bonkers - in the same vein as people who really don’t need to using food banks), whereas as a parent with bad MH, or say 3 kids, 1 SN will struggle. Maybe it should be more bespoke - a bag handed at the dour or sth. Yes I can hear myself. I don’t think it’s money well spent.

WTH people dropping kids off at 8.30 for it! Give them breakfast at home! If you need to commute give them an earlier breakfast and not everyone surely can be a single parent.

@ExpatAl very valid point that commuters going to well paid job will be together enough to avail of the service (which I just can’t believe. It’s bonkers - in the same vein as people who really don’t need to using food banks),

well off parents will a) be entitled as it’s universal b) will HAVE to use it as it will either replace what they currently use directly OR it make third party providers unviable. It is nothing like using a food bank when you don’t need to.

@RheaRend different schools do different things. Your school may charge for milk in infants. My kids school provided free fruit AND milk. My nephews school provided neither.

I posted to say we always had breakfast. However, we lived in the years of the new NHS and received care from that as well. Being post-war born a wide range of facilities were available including, for me, a pint of Jersey milk a week (which I drank), cod liver oil and malt, all given to build healthy children. None of this is now done, and many will be horrified at a pint of very much full-cream milk being drunk by a child - and they are in error, no child under six should be given any milk except whole milk since the skimmed varieties do not allow the child to process the proteins or vitamin D. School meals were paid for at 1/- a week per child, rising to 5/- by the time I left school.

If you are unhappy at paying for breakfast clubs are you also unhappy to pay for the NHS? My mother's older brother died of TB at two, before the NHS, since the family insurance did not cover a child (his father also died). My mother's cousin died at the age of 6, also of TB, and my cousin's elder brother died at 3 months, cause unknown. Everyone, including m/c parents who have good jobs, needs to see that they benefit from the NHS and the Welfare State. If breakfast clubs do that, fine, because we all need both.

Well said, Grammarnut.

different schools do different things. Your school may charge for milk in infants. My kids school provided free fruit AND milk. My nephews school provided neither.

The government fund the fruit scheme. The milk isn't funded. The school obviously pay out of their own funds for that. Ours pay half price as we do not buy cartons.

As I said upthread it isn't always the kids you think need breakfast.

I had a SAHM lived in a new build and had holidays, but frequently I went without breakfast until I was old enough to make it myself.

My son went to an independent special needs secondary school. They provided breakfast as the school day started quite early and kids were shipped in from a 30 mile radius

Are you volunteering to run it then?

I'm really excited by breakfasts coming in - it will really help my youngest. It will make a big difference to us, and will mean the school day gets started sociably and with a proper meal.