Free breakfast clubs for ALL primary school children? Why?

[Safi7]

I’ve been overseas since the election so a bit out of the loop, but is it true that Labour are going to make it standard that all primary schools must now offer free breakfasts to all children, regardless of need?

Fair enough for children from deprived families - but all children?

Where is the money for this coming from?

Are Labour actually saying that in 2024, its now to much to expect parents to actually bother to feed their own children breakfast? This responsibility can just be pushed onto schools instead - as if they haven’t got enough on? Teachers are leaving in droves as it is. Du much is out in them - the jobs is becoming more like social work in too many cases. Who will staff these breakfast clubs and make sure kids are actually eating?

Surely this is just encouraging lazy parenting - ie parents who can well afford cereal / toast / eggs etc it but just won’t bother if their kids can eat at school instead. Plus children will be dumped at school earlier than necessary, just because parents can now get away with it?

Surely it’s better to direct resources where they are actually needed, rather than turn schools into free cafes? Makes no sense.

Absolutely, so did my Mum - she lived in a caravan until she was 9! The family never went without meals.
Or maybe finance for budgeting classes or cooking, so families learn essential skills!

Wtf? Working parents who drop off at 8.30am don't have time to do breakfasts? This is crazy, just get up earlier and make time. Why are we so opposed to getting up at say 6.30/7am to ensure we have time to feed our children?

So yes - let’s provide breakfast but let’s also have a plan to make sure that 10 years from now school breakfast clubs are a thing of the past.

Breakfast clubs will never be a thing of the past because most parents don't use it because they can't afford breakfast - they use it because it starts 1h+ earlier than school so that they can get to work (and be offered breakfast, too).

Ans regardless, support for underprivileged families should never be a thing of the past. We're in 2024, thousands of years of civilisation- and poor people still exist, around the world and in rich developed countries. Poor people aren't going anywhere.

This is crazy, just get up earlier and make time.

Why? Parent is happy. Child is happy. But random Mumsnetters is not happy.

Because the poster is saying they don't have time to give their child breakfast when they have an 8.30am drop off. Sums up the attitude of many parents on here sadly, just get up earlier and feed your child.

I feed mine at 7.30am, but that doesn't mean others have the time with a busy household? Does it matter ultimately? Not worth splitting hairs over🤔

Some kids come from very chaotic households. I'd rather they got a decent feed at breakfast club than completely forgotten about.

TBH our lunches are good quality and I often have one. The first thing that gets started at 8 am is the fresh bread which is made daily. She will also start making any cakes or cookies so that they can cool before service. All the food is made from scratch including sauces. The only thing not “home made” is ice cream and sometimes a “single serve” food if we have children with something like coeliac disease. We have ONE cook who prepares the meals for around 180 pupils every day plus any staff, who have to order by 9 am. An assistant comes in shortly before lunch to set up the hall, lay out the salad bar, help with serving and wash up between classes (because we don’t have enough plates, bowls, cutlery for everyone without washing in between). The hall is only big enough for two classes at a time to eat so they start serving at 12:00 on the dot to get the whole school through.

The quality is going down though. There are now always at least two “meat free” days and food is often bulked out with lentils and pulses because we are underfunded for meals and have had to ask the catering company to try to keep the cost to us at the same price for the last two years. If it goes up then we will have to cut something else … (midday supervisors already all made redundant, cleaning staff cut….).

I also grew up in (relative) poverty. We lived in rented rooms - very common in the 50s and 60s. My mother always gave us breakfast, toast or cereal or porridge.

For those PPs who state they lived in relative or absolute poverty and never missed a meal, that's admirable.

Some families live in chaos. It doesn't even matter if a functioning alcoholic has managed to maintain employment if you're always in debt and trying to dodge the thunderous knocking on the front door and staving off the next catastrophe.

I took over the care for my siblings from a young age. I couldn't prepare meals if we had nothing. Because household expenses like food came from the in cash Family Allowance (as it then was), I stretched that throughout the week. But, if my parents decided to spend it, or my father decided to take it, we went without.

I'd like to think it's harder for children to live in such precarity and chaos now but I know that they do.

More families live in chaos than we probably know. Some people who never have anyone over or can never have friends back. So many more.

My DC gets the bus at 7.55 am. Already had breakfast.

The classrooms aren’t used at all. Students go into the dining hall, have some food, and then play until school starts. This is the same as after school club, I’ve never known a school where these sorts of clubs take place in the classrooms.
There’s also nowhere near 210 kids at breakfast club. The school has well over 400 pupils but less than 100 go to breakfast club (and there’s no limits on who can go - it’s just that less than 1/4 choose to)

The problem is, that up until now, breakfast club has been something that most parents pay for. With multiple children, it quickly became too expensive so uptake as low.

However, it’s now free, and quite likely the uptake will be much higher. If 200+ want to go, they will have to use the classrooms in many school.

Absolutely this!
When you means test, then some families in need miss out, costs more to administer and there may be a level of stigma attached.
Yes, some middle class families may use it who aren't in poverty, but they are the families funding it, and they are our teachers, nurses, doctors etc and if we support them better it benefits us all.

Some have suggested money should be directed towards social care to support vunerable families, but social care is already the highest funded service in nearly every council, with limited effect. As a health professional I have been involved in so many cases where SS have been involved, with meeting after meeting, huge amounts of support given and no positive changes acheived. They only seem to get involved in the most serious cases of neglect, when we refer families who are struggling but trying their best, such as parents with disabilities, they do not want to know. And time and time again we are called into child death reviews where we were crying out to social services to do something, and they did nothing. High turnover of staff due to stress means lots of expensive agency staff, lack of continuity and many missed oppurtunities to support. Giving the money to schools will pound for pound acheive much better outcomes

You're assuming that all people living in poverty have no skills, which is insulting.

Do you honestly think addict parents would attend budgeting or cooking classes? Parents who work full time but rely on food banks? Disabled parents?

When I first became disabled, I was, "living in poverty". I'm an educational academic. If someone had suggested I needed to take classes in cooking or budgeting, it would have both offended and upset me. Ridiculous suggestion.

If we are now looking to schools to fill in the gaps by parents/society then realistically we need to change the purpose of schools and what purpose they serve.
Is the purpose of schools to educate or is it to provide social support?
If it is to educate then social services need expanding, if it is to provide social support then we need an alternate way of educating.
Schools can not be expected to do both or results will suffer. If more and more of school budgets is being spent on food/breakfast clubs/supervising teeth brushing then there will be even less money for teaching resources/teachers etc.
If more and more teaching time is being taken up with social care activities then there is even less time for teaching maths/English and the curriculum.

I agree. You can’t just pile it all onto schools with no money and still expect them to meet all of Ofsted’s pointless expectations

Exactly this! People who currently use breakfast clubs, like myself, pay a lot for that service for childcare not to feed our children.

They do in my school as every room is a classroom! They will have to if it is available free for all as there will be too many in one room to keep kids safe.

100 kids in one room but can accommodate 400? Surely that is a recipe for disaster. How are child/adult ratios arranged?

When does cleaning take place if the rooms are being used?

But the point is exactly that THOSE children need the funds. This isn’t about whether children should be fed or not it’s about whether a new universal benefit should be initiated in a climate where other universal benefits are being withdrawn and taxes set Tom increase. The link someone helpfully posted several pages back said that there is already a fund schools can apply to for money. The cost of a breakfast club place was estimated at £760 a year. Sounds to me like schools need to apply for that fund and target the money at kids who need this so you don’t need to spend your own money on food, clothes, water bottles etc. Surely a hardship fund would work better?

I have made this point already but I will make it again; who is looking out for year 7 plus kids? What do people think they do? Bigger appetites, more expensive uniform, field trips relating to exams… it’s ridiculous that someone like me, double income family and able to afford to pay would get their morning care paid for in this context and whilst a granny with a pension a quid above pension credit eligibility gets their fuel payment removed.

But they will be if all kids can attend as it will not be safe to have them in the hall.

The classrooms are used in my school as all rooms are classrooms.

How does the club budget and manage things like food waste? If they anticipate 100 kids in but get 200 one day how would they manage space, food, budgets etc?

Giving the money to schools will pound for pound acheive much better outcomes

But they are not fully funded so the money is not all given to schools, then staff have to cover the shortfall or schools do in other ways - getting rid of staff, less resources, staff working for no pay or removing staff breaks.

Do you honestly think addict parents would attend budgeting or cooking classes?

Agreed. As it is, my mother was a good cook. My father was an outstanding mathematician.

Some family are chaotic. It's not always related to lack of education.

Although everyone could sign on I have never known there even be anywhere near 100 sign up on any one day.
Here you have to book on to it the day before (and you can see how many people are booked on so I have a good idea of take-up). They then ensure they have enough people for the next day. If you’re not booked on you can’t go. This also prevents food waste but then most of the food is cereal, and then juice/milk which can be used the next day easily. It’s only bread that might end up being wasted.
Does your school not have a hall or dining room/canteen? Where do assemblies or events take place? If there are schools that don’t have any space at all like this then I guess they’ll struggle to offer it but every school I’ve known has a school hall. Then cleaning of that room takes place after the start of the normal school day when all the kids are in class.

How does the club budget and manage things like food waste? If they anticipate 100 kids in but get 200 one day how would they manage space, food, budgets etc?

It’s only really going to be workable if parents book in advance-it’ll be impossible to meal plan otherwise.

The numbers is going to be a huge issue in our school though-even if only half the children in the school go, that’ll be three times the number that currently go, which is unsafe to have in the small hall.

We have to stagger lunch arrangements for this reason and that’s with them all sitting down to eat-there’s no way we could have more in there playing as well!

This means the classrooms will need to be used which will mean a member of staff will be needed for each room that is used and will really impact on the teacher who is trying to set up their room for the morning’s lessons!

All the toys in my Y1 classroom were bought out of my own money (or are my own kids’ bits from home)-my own classes are taught how to look after them and tidy them up properly. There’s no way I’d want random kids from different classes using it all at breakfast club every morning.

@RheaRend the whole thing makes no sense from a practical point of view. I already said up thread what happens to the free fruit and veg and milk in my child’s school. Milk chucked over the gate in the morning on a Friday. Often sat there til Monday. Net bags of carrots (the sort you’d get in a wholesalers) dumped unopened next to the bins with rotting tomatoes, apples and more. Main beneficiaries seem to be the teachers pet Guinea pigs.