Is this anxiety in DD? Advice on how to help

[Californiadaze123]

My DD is 11 and is becoming quite extreme in her planning and timekeeping, it seems to be getting worse.
A few examples would be that when I switch her lights off at night, she’ll decide they should go off at 9.22 and if I go up 2 minutes early she will get extremely upset.
As soon as she gets up in a morning, she will run through her plan of the day with me, and is becoming increasingly less flexible if it changes, I have been trying to counteract it with telling her my plans for the day so we can try and fit them around each other, for example she’ll set certain for screen time, shower time, what time she’ll get into her pyjamas etc. All resulting in getting very upset if they can’t be done at her specific time.
if she wants her hair doing in a certain way, she will tell me the day before - over and over and also sending messages to ask if I can do it.
Being late also, if she’s late or doesn’t know what time she’ll be home from her Dads house she will voice note me apologizing and crying about it…I always try to reassure her that it’s fine.
Does this sound like anxiety and how do others cope with it? What do you do to try and make your dc less anxious surrounding this kind of thing? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated as it’s really starting to cause me and her a lot of stress.

She sounds like a carbon copy of my little girl, OP — and me when I was that age. My DD and I are both on the spectrum x

The transition to secondary is a big change and likely to be the underlying root of her present anxiety/OCD. Are there friends she has that will be going up with her? Perhaps you could organise some get togethers over the summer with them if so. Does she have a day in the school before the rest start? This could help reassure her. OCD/autism/ADHD often overlap along with other differences like dyslexia, dyspraxia etc. it's quite dynamic, some look at them as a spectrum, others more as manifold conditions, varying depending upon life changes and different environments. It sounds like her dad has traits. You are doing a great job in supporting her in talking about it and writing thoughts down and then spending time with her on it. Great job.

I bought a webinar on OCD and autism and I found it helpful. Autism is neurodiversity - OCD is mental health

It does sound like OCD - I have two somewhat anxious DCs, one more than the other, and while the general seeking reassurance is part of anxiety, the repetition and exactness is not really.

We have found this book incredibly helpful. But it's worth seeing the GP as well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Free-Child-Anxiety-Scientifically/dp/0190883529/ref=asc_df_0190883529/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697181752995&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10479583927024638047&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006854&hvtargid=pla-920544556788&psc=1&mcid=51da4b79180f35bf8dcec0ebfa2b3319&th=1&psc=1&gad_source=1

Repetitive and restrictive behaviours can look like ocd but would be part of asd.

It could be either - hopefully the GP can assist in deciding which route to take.

It does sound like OCD - I have two somewhat anxious DCs, one more than the other, and while the general seeking reassurance is part of anxiety, the repetition and exactness is not really.

Routine and repetition and stimming can be a big part of autism though? They help calm anxiety.

The routines in OCD are based in fear. It's different. I have seen my DC with OCD crying while performing rituals because he really doesn't want to have to do them. He has to, for fear of adverse consequences. He will be quite terrified if he can't carry them out.

On the other hand, his autistic routines provide comfort, they help him feel more secure. He can still get very upset and overwhelmed if he's prevented from doing them though. So there can be distress there but it's for a different reason. He wants those routines, they help.

The reasons behind the behaviours are key.

Also, I would reiterate that it's so important to work with experienced people who take the time to get to know your DD well.

It took CAMHS about 6 or 7 years to acknowledge my DC had OCD as well as autism. A lot of damage was done in that time.They put all repetitive behaviours down to his autism and refused to look further, even though it is well known that autistics have a higher incidence of OCD and MH issues in general.

It sounds like autism to me and anxiety is usually a big feature in girls and they often are mistakenly diagnosed with OCD.

From what OP has said so far I think autism too.
Whether there is OCD there too I don't know. Everything OP has described so far could simply be autism, but she needs to be assessed. As I said the reasons behind her behaviour will be important in ascertaining what's going on.

I'm sorry OP, I know this is all a shock and obviously we can't be sure at all - these are simply suggestions, a starting point when you're looking for help for her. The behaviours are familiar to those with experience of autism though.

She does need help and support now. And so do you.

I have contacted our GP this morning, so I am just waiting for a call back to discuss with them.
Unfortunately going private isn’t really an option for us and I can’t discuss with her Dad as like I’ve already said, he refuses any contact with me.

I didn’t realise that autism showed itself around the starting secondary school age, although I do know someone who had this happen to her granddaughter so maybe I can ask her more about this for advice.

She has also got a lot pickier with food, liking something and eating it all the time, only to say she doesn’t like it the next day and totally refusing to eat it again.

I did wonder if it was my fault that I pander to her, as she doesn’t behave in such an obsessive state for others. Everyone knows what a stickler for time she is and how shy she can and her “plan” has become a bit of a joke for others

You’re her safe person. Thats why.

I remember Dd saying the only person she didn’t have to mask with was me. Like it was a compliment😭

No, it just shows she can relax and be herself with you OP. Probably masks with others so behaves better on the outside while stressing inside.
You are her safe place.

Contrary to what another poster has said, In my experience you can in some cases manage/help OCD without professional intervention.

If it is OCD, and it sounds as though it could be, I can't recommend this book enough.

It proved extremely helpful with my children, so reassuring and educated them on what was going on with them.

It is a compliment really.
She trusts you to love her unconditionally.

My son's autism was picked up when he started primary school, there were a lot more social interactions at primary which highlighted his issues. However, transition times especially the primary to secondary transition are naturally scary and anxious young people can seek to impose some form of control over other areas of their life as a form of reassurance. The behaviours are an indication of underlying anxiety.
You are doing everything right in seeking a GP referral, you may also be able to receive Disability Living Allowance for her, this could be worth looking into if she is requiring more care from yourself (I get DLA and Carer's Allowance).

Secondary transition is when girls tend to fall apart.

Parental accommodation does increase OCD. This isn't pandering, it's natural to want to decrease distress. But it does make it worse in the long term.

?

If the OP's DD actually has OCD and that'a very big if at this stage.

Some accommodations are important in autism.

Most parents of children with OCD do provide accommodations (eg cleaning things, repeatedly reassuring) at least some of the time. An increased amount of accommodation is associated with OCD symptom severity...how much of this is casual and how much is correlation is much harder to determine.

Treating OCD involves the individual trying to resist the impulse to perform the compulsion and family are certainly encouraged to help this process by not getting involved in the compulsions themselves...or trying to limit involvement as much as they can without causing severe distress.

But OP really needs to know what she's dealing with first...

I have OCD as do my children - and this is not my experience. What I have learned from having children with ocd is that all ocd is very different. My daughter and I admit to enjoying some of our compulsive obsessiveness. But I get some people can find it distressing and I am sorry for your son. My son reduced his ocd at the age of eight himself after reading gold fish boy - maybe that book would help your son.

Yes unfortunately I do agree with that - I went to an ocd parenting course where we were taught unfortunately parents who think they are helping a child with their ocd by facilitating rituals usually end up with a child with severe ocd which is what happened in our family - but how you deal with a distressed child and refuse help they ask for is something very difficult. Especially in young children.

I don’t have an answer for you but we had family therapy as part of helping my daughter with ocd - and apparently it’s very common for that child to develop an intense relationship with a parent (usually mother) who gets drawn into their ocd world.
I think one of the most important steps is to help your daughter learn coping mechanisms to deal with stress and discomfort. People think deny the behaviour…but the behaviour started as an unhealthy response to stress and fear - and healthy behaviours need to be adopted in their place. Your modelling on how you deal with stress and fear is vital too.

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll definitely look for that.

I also agree with your other comment about coping mechanisms being so important and the need to develop strategies to deal with the thoughts.

However, I don't recognise the sort of OCD one can enjoy? Is that still defined as OCD? The D stands for disorder after all, and if it's not causing distress...?

Anyway, our famiy's experience of it is more akin to that described in this link.

https://www.turningpointpsychology.ca/blog/do-i-have-ocd-sorting-out-through-ocd-confusion

My son does have other (different) routines he enjoys but we consider those part of his autism. In a way it can be hard to tease apart, but I think the 'black and white' thinking that sometimes comes with autism made it more likely that he succumbed to the intrusive thoughts of OCD. I suppose we think of them as two sides of a coin really. But the OCD thoughts are intrusive and unwanted.