Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

It's you who's missed the point @CurlewKate

I love watching the gymnastics and I think the women’s routines are FAR superior to the men’s…both in the way they are presented and the skills on show 🤷‍♀️. Its a sport where women dominate and it hasn’t been overtaken by the men in terms of popularity so women are seen as the B team or second best option 🤷‍♀️

I agree OP. Feel the same about the swim suits worn by the female divers - and, to be fair, the male divers too.

Jaw is on the floor at the number of people not getting your point on this thread.

@AGoingConcern

Thanks for your sensible replies here.

Girls have choices - one of mine competes in shorts, one chooses not to. Some olympic competitors compete in unitards. Anything looser gets in the way.

Dance? Making an overall visual routine. Mine think the mens routines look dull.

Smiles? Simone Bikes was not faking her beams yesterday.

Hair? It's the only time my daughter 'does' her hair and she likes it (I'd be the first in the firing line if she didn't).

Sparkles and make up? Competitors choice.

It's phenomenal and they are such good role models.

I don't like the artistry. These people are Olympians - why the silly dancy bits? The men don't have to do it. Wonder if the women like doing it or if it's just the way it is?

Of course they would still win. Gymnastics scoring is very strict and formulaic. Points are given for the dance in floor and beam but there are certainly no points given for make up or leo design.

They weren't even shorts like the men's they were 2cm deeper at the side seam I think it was 10cm instead of 8cm!

Wtf!

So if they would win with out it why are their costumes designed that way?

Surly not every female athlete wants to dress like that? They are not all glitter power puff girls?

I don't think that was the OP's intention at all. She clearly admires the physical demands of the event and is questioning why top female athletes have to do these non-talent-related aesthetic bits and pieces too on top of that when their male competitors do not.

I agree OP - I do think the elements you describe are odd and have nothing to do with the gymnastic ability they are supposedly being marked on. As you say, the men don't do any of this.

I am absolutely fine with women choosing to be part of the traditions - fair enough if they want to be and for all we know, some people are drawn to the sport partly because of these performative feminine aspects. But as you and others point out, it's hard to determine what is really free choice given the risks of not conforming.

This!!!

MN split 50/50 here…there’s never going to be any consensus. Just one side arguing the other ad infinitum.

Perhaps "infantilising" was the wrong word for the OP to use; perhaps it's the enforcing of "performed femininity" (stereotype) the OP is objecting to?

I think you’ve nailed part of why this sort of thread is so frustrating. Gymnastics is the rare sport where the women get more funding, more support, and more attention than their counterparts on the men’s side. When I go to gymnastics events the men’s sessions usually have half the attendance of the women’s and the crowds are filled with girls absolutely bouncing with excitement.

It’s ok to celebrate and embrace being both girlie and powerful. Women shouldn’t have to emulate the men, they can have a sport that’s all their own.

The arrogance it takes to look at an athlete reaching the Olympics in their chosen sport and say “oh little lady, I know you think you’re achieving the dreams you worked so hard for but actually you’re being humiliated and you’re just too helpless to know it” is astounding.

👏👏👏👏

@AGoingConcern well said. Dancing and ‘frilly bits’ are a skill in itself…think of ballet dances. Also would you be able to do a ‘frilly dance’ on a narrow beam? I wouldn’t! 😂🙌

Me too.

Or maybe we could ask why men’s floor still doesn’t have music? Just because something is traditionally feminine doesn’t make it the wrong option. Why can’t the male gymnasts build their difficult with spins and leaps like the women can (suggested elements were rejected by FIG)? Women’s floor is great in that there is more than one way to succeed, so routines are diverse and interesting and distinct. Some people have the maximum tumbling passes and others have fewer, but still have a competitive routine by building difficultly with non acrobatic elements. I also rarely see a female gymnast run over time, because the music keeps them on track.

Men’s floor is technically incredible, but dry and repetitive. Almost every routine is the same structure, same non acrobatic elements, and to me it calls out for the originality and diversity of women’s floor. And music!

But they don’t all dress like that. See the picture from the German team posted upthread. The others - yes, I imagine they do want to. They have a lot of input into their leotards so they’ve asked for the sparkle.

There is a website entirely devoted to crotch shots of female gymnasts during competitions. Revolting .

Ex gymnastic here (who suffered physical and emotional abuse in training). I understand what you mean somewhat. But as for leos, that’s a source of pride when competing, they could wear dull versions but gymnasts often want the sparkle, they are performing after all. Rules were rightly changed a few years ago and they can wear shorts if they want to cover up more, though most don’t as it’s just not as comfortable

as for insanely grinning, I just don’t think that’s a thing. As for the dance you describe, I agree sometimes it looks silly, but it’s so needed as a pause from the physical stuff to reset, take a breather, prepare for next move etc. gymnastics got incredible intense a few Olympics back and actually dance was reintroduced into the code to encourage athletes to not just continually throw these dangerous skills. Artistry is part of the sport, and the fun of it, so it sounds like maybe gymnastics just isn’t for you? If you want to watch an athlete continually launch themselves into the air, maybe watch trampolining?

ps I will totally agree that men’s gymnastics doesn’t require the dance per se (I’m sure this has come up in comments) - but think about it, we’re talking beam and floor here that women dance - beam is unlike any other men’s event in that you are competing a series of moves with the opportunity to pause in between to gather yourself, the dance is the means to pause. As for floor, yes men don’t dance but they still do weird prancing moves to reset before the next skill , if women did the same I think it would take a lot of
joy from the sport , maybe would suit athletes like jade carey who has great tumbling but little artistry, but actually for most gymnasts would stifle them, and result in a much greater focus on tumbling and doing incredibly difficult dangerous stuff

The Olympics were originally for unpaid amateurs, so they couldn't give cash prizes to the athletes because that would void their amateur status.
Things have changed a bit since then, and professionals are now allowed to compete in the Olympics. But the general idea behind the games is still that athletes should want to win for glory, not for money. The medals and pride in winning for your country are the prize.

Honestly, you sensible types - who actually have experience of gymnastics and know what you are talking about - are just wasting your time trying to explain on here. MN is full of rabid "feminists" who seem to have nothing better to do than try and force everyone else to subscribe to their superior viewpoints. Nothing you can say will change their minds, because they know better than everyone else. Every female gymnast currently competing at the Olympics could come on this thread and disagree with them - but they would still be right!

Have any of the detractors actually stopped to think that the competitors might actually enjoy what they do?
The leotards,.the hair, makeup, the whole ritual?
If they didn't they would either give it up or campaign for change. But maybe they like it as it is and don't want need a bunch of screeching harpies dictating how they should dress/act

I enjoy the women’s floor routines much more than the men’s. The music makes it more entertaining and I think there is more variety - you get the sheer power of someone like Biles but you also get some very balletic routines that are lovely to watch in a different way.

The competition leotards have more coverage than the training ones given they’re all long sleeves. If you watch clips for the podium training they’re in sleeveless leotards a lot of the time. I’d 100% take the gymnastics leotards over the track and field outfits if I had to wear one.

Thank you!
I used to compete in gymnastics a looong time ago; it's my favourite sport to watch. As you say, the point I was trying to make has been lost while people yell "misogynist" at me (while female gymnasts are marked down for not smiling enough).
I do concede that the flappy arms is part and parcel of the dance aspect, but I don't think it looks like very good dancing... (Runs for cover)