Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

Do men have to make that choice for the same reasons?

What was disingenuous about them?

I really don't see women wearing sparkly leotards as sexualised. But in case that hasn't been made clear enough on this thread yet - neither sparkles nor leotards are compulsory, and no marks at all are awarded for style and fashion.

My point was that women get dealt a crappy version of things by a patriarchal society.

You decided to frame that as women are crappy versions of men.

HTH.

the performances of the women athletes are not sexualised, dancing to music does not equal sex. Some member of the public may choose to sexualise them, but the same happens to the male gymnasts, and pretty much any visible female a single minded man likes the look of. The difference here is you don't respect their sport.

In the sense that artistry is scored for women’s gymnastics and not men’s.

Well @BernardBlacksBreakfastWine
this was my original post. Which was not aimed at you but made more generally

It is immensely telling (to me at least) how much people have internalised sport as a male sphere where women could only hope to be lesser versions of men. What a sad take on the world.

And this was your response

Or… one based on reality 🤷‍♀️

So I'll leave it there and everyone can decide what you meant by that

Pretty sure men get the same artistry deductions as women. And artistry isn't 'scored'. Are you mixing this up with figure skating?

More personal insults thrown at another woman. Delightful.

I don’t want my children to believe that women’s bodies are inherently sexualized just because they’re visible or that women either have to cover up or are selling sex. That’s a disgusting message of rape culture.

I also don’t want my children growing up to believe that wearing or doing things that are considered girly in our culture is inherently demeaning, infantile, or less serious. I think that is the exact opposite of feminism.

Gymnasts do not have to wear makeup or sparkles or avoid looking like mature women, and they don’t have to smile. Anyone saying they do in 2024 has zero clue what they’re talking about. But attacking women who do choose a more feminine aesthetic or remove hair on their own bodies just because men don’t do these things is anti-feminist.

If this is the case then why did the German team wear unitards "in protest against the sexualisation of the sport"? Are their opinions not valid?

Also it's worth mentioning that the aesthetics of the women's gymnastics is being hotly debated. Last year the head coach of the Russian team said athletes like Biles were ruining the sport by taking away its "beauty".

Quote:
"There is simply nothing to watch. She has no great performance, only difficulty...What should prevail? Beauty and high level of performance while respecting the rules. Or will we only follow the path of complexity?"

It's not remotely disingenuous.

Your entire premise is that because the men's and women's are different, the women's must be the rubbish version and the men's is the default. You've still, despite repeated requests, failed to give any explanation at all of why this is the case in artistic gymnastics.

It's not good enough to simply say that the men's version is usually better, because in most cases the women aren't the ones enjoying a disproportionate amount of success and reward and the women don't usually have access to something that was designed with us as the default. But both of those things are the case in women's gymnastics. Failure to acknowledge that and factor it into your thinking smacks of sexist assumptions that women's things are inherently more crap.

My point was that women get dealt a crappy version of things by a patriarchal society.

Yet you're railing against a sport that didn't do that. It evolved a separate version that focused on the strengths of the female body. So I don't understand your position at all. Unless you think that there's nothing the female body can be better than physically compared to the male body?

The sexism is coming from inside the building with that poster, sadly.

Whenever there are notable differences in male and female anything , alarm bells ring for me

The sparkles and strutting - no biological reason for any of that in womens sport , no reason why all women should fit that one mold to succeed

Saying " oh my child loves the outfits " is so missing the point - the outfits that they associate with success and praise , of course they love them .

They wore them to provide an alternative. That's great and has now been permitted to years. There are leotards, unitards, and the unitard with short legs. All permitted.

There were women competing in unitards yesterday, not as a protest but as a normal option in elite gymnastics.

Leotards aren't compulsory. For the moment, most gymnasts who have expressed a preference prefer them.

Seeing a woman's body is not a sexual provocation. Women wearing leotards are not sexualised by that fact. Nor by sparkles.

Last year the head coach of the Russian team said athletes like Biles were ruining the sport by taking away its "beauty".

"There is simply nothing to watch. She has no great performance, only difficulty...What should prevail? Beauty and high level of performance while respecting the rules. Or will we only follow the path of complexity?"

Classic soviet era gymnastics valued skills presented in a package of musicality, artistry, dance, expression, originality. That's got nothing to do with sexualisation though.

If you actually want to understand what they're talking about, go google a floor routine by Omelianchik and compare that to what Biles does. They're very different. In my opinion both amazing in their own ways, but people prefer different things.

Yes I remember the tortured gymnasts from the eastern block in the 70s and 80s. The drugs and hormones they were forced to take and the impact on their lives.
Shameful

Whenever there are notable differences in male and female anything , alarm bells ring for me

and it's fair for that to happen and to look into it, but it isn't fair (as PPs have pointed out many times) to assume that means the male version is better and what we should push the womens version to be more like it. In the same way we encourage emotional complexity and dealing with feelings in a healthy way for young girls, and young boys are often taught to bottle things up and not to cry and that the only acceptable way to express emotion is anger. Sometimes when we look at the difference it's actually the womens version which is better. I think this is the case in artistic gymnastics. Women have more scope for expression, more ways in which they can succeed, they develop the skillset of musicality, they also have a more engaging sport as a result.

Agree.

Not to mention that those comments (from the coach of a program on decline) were widely derided as a case of sour grapes with some racist accents.

The artistry & execution vs difficulty debate is always ongoing in BOTH men’s and women’s gymnastics. That’s not related to hairstyles or makeup or sparkles.

If Russia had a Biles they'd advocate for the power gymnasts. Biles is recognised as having above average artistry and excellent execution by those who are serious about the sport. The exact balance of reward for different strengths is reviewed for each Olympic cycle. Artistry is part of the sport. It does not incorporate hairstyle, makeup or leotard design!

Okay then, don't take the opportunity to understand what people are saying, just continue in your bubble then. 🙄

Happened across many sports, sadly

Respecting women's bodily autonomy (rather than dismissing their style as tacky or blaming them for showing an inch of flesh) is how we bolster ourselves against future abuses. Not expecting gymnasts to dress like three day eventers or men.

At least they look like young women when you look back to the likes of Olga Korbut looking like a 10 year old when she was 17 and numerous others from former Eastern block countries and China. Now they are slightly older and look more their age.