Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

Because they are an anachronism in this situation. Love a frock but don't want to be running around a court or pitch in a silly little pleated skirt. Shorts or a skort are fine.

But then you wear shorts under so the only objection is that it's girly, right? I don't play netball anymore but I'd prefer a skirt to tight shorts or baggy boy shorts!

If you don't know much gymnastics history, there are trends you can misread here.

Gymnasts used to be viewed as young girls, pre-pubescent, tomboys, flat chested, boyish.

Gymnasts these days are keen to emphasise that they are women, competing into their late 20s and 30s. They have been to university. Some have had children.

This is especially the case for the two "sparkliest" teams of global superstars, USA and Brazil.

You may not like or share their vision of womanhood, but it is theirs and on those two teams, the gymnasts have a lot of control over the "look".

These women would very likely find a plain, make up free, ponytail look "infantilising" if imposed. Some choose it. But the teams who are working on gymnastics as a mature sport with more athlete autonomy aren't choosing to look like soviet 14 year olds. They could. They don't.

So where does swimming come into the gymnastics? Why would removing your pubes improve your performance in gymnastics? Distinct lack of rational thinking in evidence.

I’ve been watching the surfing over the last few days, for the first time ever.

Obviously done in the ocean, lots of wipe-outs, lots of potential for unflattering shots of the nether regions.

Lots of female competitors choose to wear short shorts, which feels like the smart option. A couple wore bikini bottoms, similar to beach volleyball players. And then there was one I saw wearing a thong bikini bottom - basically her whole arse is out on display. Plenty of close-up shots of her arse in all its glory as she’s lying on top of her board paddling back into position.

I just feel really conflicted by it. I’m not a pearl clutcher, an arse is just an arse. And I do believe that women should wear what they want. But I felt like it was a disappointing choice. Regular surfing on the beach, fine, do it naked for all I care. But representing your country in a sport where women aren’t taken seriously as the men and you turn up with your arse out?

I don’t know why we do this to ourselves as women. There’s no way that a thong is the most practical or comfy option for performing elite sport.

Male gymnasts wear very little too, but they do have penises and testicles that need containing and holding neatly in place, so their lycra bottom halves are probably slightly more expansive out of necessity. In the same way that they may wear deeply cutaway vest tops while the women wear tight fitting, full coverage leotards across their breasts, so it is with the bottom halves for men, compared to women. The bits that might move, jiggle or fall out need to be kept in place and are not the same for women and men.

Yep. It's not a matter of opinion that the dance and artistry elements are a part of the sport of women's artistic gymnastics. If you don't like that, tumbling and trampolining also exist, and I expect the trampolining will be on the telly next week. But it's as much a part of the sport as, say bars. It just is.

quite, I don't fancy seeing a rogue ball while trying to enjoy the parallel bars. I would also find the firmly packaged, protruding bulge ballet dancers favour distracting in HD tv shots. They need something looser around their nether regions. The Italian men do particularly enjoy a low cut singlet though, I'm convinced we will get a nipple flash before too long.

Why are the men the default? Men's and women's artistic gymnastics are two different sports with completely different governing bodies. This just smacks of men as better and default, women's things as inferior and silly. It's sexist in itself. You can say you prefer the acrobatic elements and don't like the dance without making what men do the standard.

Mmmmm nooo what's irrational here is arm chair middle class white feminists effectively saying that some of the most gifted athletes on this planet are too stupid to be proper feminists and know what's good for them

Unbelievably paternalistic view

But they wear the shorts anyway. The dress is a pointlessly long top. And what are “boy shorts”? Are they the ones my DD2 wears for football?

Gymnasts used to be viewed as young girls, pre-pubescent, tomboys, flat chested, boyish.

Yes because certain Eastern European countries used to give them puberty blockers to keep them that way.

You're right, the men really should up their game and demonstrate the same breadth of skills that the women do. How pathetic that they're too insecure in their masculinity to do a spin or move to music.

God, I can't get worked up about gymnasts removing their pubes when a massively number of western women have been doing exactly that for no good reason for the last 30 years as a fashion and grooming choice, and many women in Arab cultures have done it since forever, even though their groin area is not on display to huge audiences with close up camera angles every time they go to work.

Gymnasts know that people are scrutinising their every movement in close up, while they wear very little, out of a degree of necessity. They want to look neat and tidy and not have stray pubes. So what? Do must of us not have a little tidy up down there just before our 2 week holiday in Spain?

It’s one of the very few Olympic sports I bother watching. I enjoy it. Can you do what they do?

Not just an Eastern European trend - American athletes were the same through most of the 1980s up well into the 2000s. The assumption was that once you lost that body type, your career was over. Hence eating restrictions and disorders too.

Gymnastics is moving away from that era. The athletes are older and more mature. Elaborate hairstyles and makeup for women who choose them are part of that trajectory.

True. But the men's kit isn't sparkly and they are not required to do daft dance moves between tumbles. I understand some of the female athletes weren't happy with the designs.

It's not a matter of opinion that the dance and artistry elements are a part of the sport of women's artistic gymnastics. If you don't like that, tumbling and trampolining also exist, and I expect the trampolining will be on the telly next week. But it's as much a part of the sport as, say bars. It just is.

In what other sphere of life would you say 'it just is' and leave it there? Female genital mutilation: it's always existed, it just is, don't do anything about it. Sexism: it just is. Discrimination against pregnant workers and women with small children: it just is.

It doesn't have to be this way. When someone was caught on camera punching a horse in the Modern Pentathlon at the 2020 Olympics the ruling body decided that from 2028 the show-jumping element of the sport would be dropped. It looks very much as if dressage will be dropped from competition in the future following revelations about Charlotte Dujardin. It's not 'It just is'. Otherwise there would have been no furore over the sexual and physical abuse that was endemic in gymnastics for years.

I wonder how many amazing female gymnasts and other athletes drop out of competitive sport in adolescence because they're unhappy with the ridiculous uniforms they're require to wear, all too many of which focus attention on the crotch? This thread has reminded me that when the first video recorders became available a woman who worked with my mum told colleagues that she'd wiped all the gymnastic and sports tapes her husband had recorded because she'd caught him masturbating while watching one female runner with jiggly breasts in slow motion.

What would you prefer they wear?

The women have bare legs and covered arms and shoulders. The men have covered legs and bare arms and shoulders. Have a think about the difference between men's and women's gymnastics and try and figure out just why that might be... Go on, I'm sure if you know anything at all about sport you'll get there...

And at the end of the day, it's a scored artistic sport. You don't like the aesthetic obviously, but art is in the eye of the beholder.

This just reads like another "anything women do is stupid, they should be more like men" post.

Why is what the men do better, though?

I follow gymnastics rather obsessively and haven't seen a thing about women not liking the leotard design for these games. I'd be interested to see it because there has been a huge emphasis on team building, consultation and collaboration this cycle.

(There were women who objected to some of the USA athletic designs, but these weren't for gymnastics)

Men can wear sparkles if they want to.

There is nothing particularly daft about dance moves - that's a subjective judgement of your own. The men and women have different codes of points and different rules. They are different sports. That's fine.

There is also a sport called track and tumbling for anyone not wanting to watch artistic gymnastics. I find it a bit dull, but that's my taste

This is a terrible post.

Your whole proposition is based on the idea that women's sport having more dance elements to it than the men's is an inherently bad thing. Like how FGM is inherently bad and sexist or at least I hope that's what you think. But you've not explained why the men's version of the sport is the better one, whereas it's quite obvious that not being discriminated against is superior. Your whole argument comes from a sexist premise it itself. The men's must be better and the thing to work towards because it's what men do. Male as default.

Additionally, my post was about the artistry elements of the sport not the clothing. You're blurring the two, and indeed the outfits were less skimpy a few decades back when the artistry elements were more important relative to the acro than they are now.

Nobody is saying that, the opposite in fact. Don’t be so rude.

I think they look amazing, definitely not cheap and tacky. Love the leotards - especially Mexico's Elizabethan ruff collars, USA's crystal stars on aquamarine, Ukraine's take on Frozen, SA's gorgeous beaded leo, Israel's bright blue and silver. Why not add some showmanship and theatre with their uniforms to what is an incredible superhuman gravity defying event which straddles sport and artistry. The hair is practical. It has to be off the face and neck, so plaits, buns, ponies are all there to do the job. If you can do some fancy plaiting - practical and beautiful - why not! Like any sport or art, there are conventions. Rather than a flat ballet bun, they do a standy up bun. I was disappointed in team GB's oufits - a very dull dark grey with minimal sparkle which made them disappear into the background. Hopefully they crack out more sparkles and colour for the individuals to match their talent and athleticism.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/04/12/heres-why-a-nike-womens-olympic-uniform-reveal-prompted-claims-of-sexism-criticism-from-athletes/. You're right I couldn't find any complaints about the gymnastics kit, it was this I was thinking about .

Why do male swimmers' trunks cover their arse cheeks but female swimmers costumes reveal their arse cheeks? It's the same principle in gymnastics. The "male gaze" is a factor, and it has permeated western culture for hundreds of years.