AIBU to be confused about ultra processed foods?

[Mostlycarbon]

I'd never heard of UPFs until I joined Mumsnet. To be honest I assumed it was an affectation of the wealthy who have more money to spend on groceries than we do, and possibly in some cases symptomatic of orthorexia.

However, it all seems to have gone mainstream now and be a genuine nutrition concern in the UK: Why we might never know the truth about ultra-processed foods - BBC News

So I figured I should have a think about our diet as a family and specifically what we are feeding our two year old. We mostly cook from scratch (I work part-time, husband loves cooking which makes it doable for us), meat eater who eat fish a couple of times per week and veggie at least once per week.

So his diet is something like:

Breakfast: porridge, banana or eggy bread or sometimes cereal, yoghurt etc.

Lunch: eggs on toast/ beans on toast (low salt, low sugar)/ pasta with pepper, tomato and grated cheese/ cheese on toast (wholegrain sliced supermarket bread)/ peanut butter sandwich and yoghurt/ jacket potato with tuna/cheese/beans plus apple or cucumber on the side.

Dinner: Spagbol, fajitas, fish pie, chilli, roast chicken, chicken casserole, fish with rice and veggies etc. Occasionally fish fingers or homemade pizza.

Snacks: Organix brand snacks, cheese cubes, fruit, raisins, yoghurt, little pot of cheerios, apple and peanut butter. The occasional ice cream as a summer treat.

I thought we were doing pretty well, but actually are we? I probably need to reduce the organix snacks which presumably are UPF. But what else is UPF? Peanut butter? Cheese cubes? Yoghurts? Supermarket bread? Presumably the tortillas we have with fajitas?!! Tinned tuna? Beef mince? The baked beans I guess!

And presumably some UPFs are worse than others?!!! We're both teachers with a hefty mortgage so we don't have infinite time or money to worry about this.

YABU: It's actually very straightforward to not feed your kids junk.
YANBU: It's confusing.

*isnt, ha.

DD only finished nursery last year and they had raisins for snack several times a week, so definitely not a no in childcare.

Swap sliced supermarket bread for bakery bread or the brand Jason's is supposed to be good. I've started making homemade granola and my kids like it as a snack so you could do a swap for Cheerios.
Baked beans are probably UPF but a bit herr and there is probably fine! I'm part of a UPF Facebook group which is helpful for hints and tips

Or even natural yogurt. Doesn’t have to be Greek. Add fresh fruit if you want, or even as a treat home-made jam

You’re relying on eating UPFs affecting your health not at all, just striking you dead out of the blue. More likely that it simply compresses the whole gruesome mess into a shorter timescale. 8 years dementia instead of 10

^
I thought we were doing pretty well, but actually are we?^
I probably need to reduce the organix snacks which presumably are UPF. Yes, UPF.
But what else is UPF? Peanut butter? The one that only contains 100% peanuts and nothing else is good.
Cheese cubes? From cheese block - good. In a little, kiddie plastic bag, not tasting v cheesy (I.e. cheestrings) UPF
Yoghurts? Natural yoghurt - great. Flavoured yoghurts, especially the ones that have added things to make them 'healthy' UPF
Supermarket bread? UPF if in plastic bag with lots of ingredients that you wouldn't have in your kitchen. If baked in the supermarket should be mostly ok.
Presumably the tortillas we have with fajitas?!! Check ingredients
Tinned tuna? Good.
Beef mince? Good. Sausages - UPF.
The baked beans I guess! Yes, most likely UPF.

The rule is to check the ingredients. If the list has many things you wouldn't have in your kitchen as ingredients, than the food has been ultra processed.
Processed foods like cheese, yoghurt, chopped tomatoes tins are ok. They are not ultra processed as they haven't got many additives, not gone through many processes.

Homemade is fine.
Cereals and snacks - id reduce.
Bread- buy from bakery or have a bread maker?
I read the Ultra-processed People book and went out and bought an ice cream maker first thing. My best buy ever.

There is plenty of research linking UPFs with dementia, so definitely not a good strategy if your goal is to die of something else before the dementia gets you.

Everyone who has produced a book, written an article etc etc..

In 2022 I eliminated 95% of UPF from my diet. I lost three stone in a year, without calorie counting, without any extra exercise. Went from size 16 to size 12. I'm still size 12, without any effort.

Looking back at my childhood, I was often overweight. My mother didn't know how to cook and much of my diet was UPF, e.g. Findus Crispy Pancakes, Mother's Price white bread, cornflakes, bacon, etc, and very little fresh fruit or veg.

So I don't think it's a load of rubbish.

It just doesn't concern me. I have a living will so no treatment if I do develop dementia

It wouldn't make sense for me to take all the medication I do with the massive long term side effects vs worrying about I dunno, the pack of crisps or baked beans I eat

There's people eating ready meals and jars of sauce daily, who never exercise and drink alcohol daily. I see so much on here about UPF but somehow drinking wine daily or being way over the alcohol units is ok?

I guess I'm saying my diet is better than 95% of people I know!

Everyone who has produced a book, written an article etc etc..

And who do you think is making money from all the UPF products? The whole point of UPF is that you eat more whole, local foods. There is very little money in it, it's going back to basics, compared to the billions of pounds made on snacks, soft drinks, ready meals, I could go on, and just look at who sponsors scientific theories around diet foods, exercise etc etc, and the scientists who have tried to debunk the relatively recent findings on UPF. You're asking the right question, but coming to the wrong conclusion in my view.

Today is fairly standard except for the breakfast. I would usually have porridge with protein powder and berries

English breakfast
Bacon
Hash browns (UPF)
Eggs
Tinned tomatoes
Sourdough from the supermarket with butter
Brown sauce (UPF)

Mini dark chocolate bar

Tea will be
Rotisserie supermarket chicken (processed I guess?)
Bag of salad
Roasted veg (made at home with seasonings and olive oil)
Packet of pesto grains (UPF)
Parmesan

Greek yoghurt
Strawberries
Banana

Yes I could cook my own grains and chicken and hash browns and salad dressing but when you're balancing health issues that cause massive fatigue, it's way down the list
I'm not eating cereal plus a meal deal plus a ready meal

Looking back at my childhood, I was often overweight. My mother didn't know how to cook and much of my diet was UPF, e.g. Findus Crispy Pancakes, Mother's Price white bread, cornflakes, bacon, etc, and very little fresh fruit or veg. Conversely, up to the age of 11, tea each night was jam sandwiches followed by home made cake, and we had dessert after dinner every day - usually stewed fruit and custard, but also rice pudding, crumbles, pies. And I wasn’t overweight as a child, and never have been as an adult.

Your diet looks pretty good.

I do think UPF are a problem for our diets, but we need to apply common sense to the situation. Wholemeal sliced bread is not equivalent to a tub of Pringles. Some UPFs are hard to avoid, but not that big a deal in the context of a wider healthy diet.

Your diet sounds like it’s already pretty low in UPFs and in your position I certainly wouldn’t be worrying about cutting out the last few percent. The people who are at risk of serious ill effects are those who are eating massive amounts, like 60-70% of their calories or more.

Feeling any less confused, OP?

@lljkk have you actually read anything on the topic? You say there is no coherent logic, which may be the case if you read headlines, but if you delve into the topic it's not as difficult to understand as it seems. Takes a bit more effort than ignoring it and writing smart ass comments on MN though, probably not as fun.

Doesn't sound as if there's anything wrong with your diet OP.

The odd upf isn't going to kill you or your family.

That article you quote also says that there has never actually been any definitive research done on the effects of upfs to prove their harm, mainly because such research would be impossible to carry out.

Most of the stuff that people have done, as far as I can see, in an attempt to prove the harm of upfs has involved someone living exclusively on upfs for a period of time against another person living exclusively on a diet completely excluding upfs.

That sort of thing may be entertaining but it's not scientific, and all it proves is that someone with a diet entirely consisting of upfs is not going to be eating a healthy diet, which results in them not feeling or being healthy whilst on that sort of diet.

What it does show, and something most people already understand, is that a poor diet of any kind is going to result in poor heath.

Eat sensibly and try to keep your diet healthy. A bit of supermarket bread isn't going to do you or your family any harm at all.

It is orthorexia and a money-spinner for the book writers and programme makers. Unless you live on Space Raiders and don’t eat any fresh/froxen fruits and vegetables I wouldn’t worry.

But what else is UPF? Peanut butter? Cheese cubes? Yoghurts? Supermarket bread? Presumably the tortillas we have with fajitas?!! Tinned tuna? Beef mince? The baked beans I guess!

And presumably some UPFs are worse than others?!!! We're both teachers with a hefty mortgage so we don't have infinite time or money to worry about this.

Here you are posting on MN, so you have access to that thing called the internet, where you can google a simple explanation for all this terribly "confusing" and silly stuff. The definition of what is and isn't a UPF is quite clear, and as you are both teachers you should be quie capable of educating yourself on this.

I've seen flour tortillas mentioned a few times. Appreciate not everyone has the time or confidence but they're actually very easy to make, one way of cutting out a upf. Still not great for you IMO(White, bleached flour and heated oil) but better than shop bought ones. https://thecafesucrefarine.com/best-ever-homemade-flour-tortillas/

From what I understand, the thing with UPF is that many (not all*) use chemicals and engineered ingredients to create a 'version' of that food to make it recognisable, palatable, and cheaper, but with absolutely zero nutrition and in many cases actively harmful... but not only that, the lab-created ingredients trick your body into thinking you are ingesting nutritious food, so when the body doesn't absorb the nutrients the brain thinks it is, there are then additional neurological issues at play.

Sorry if that's garbled, but it's so much more than 'a fad'. It is linked to health - both physical and mental, as well as our behaviour and emotions. Some of these chemicals make the food literally addictive. The companies that make these 'foods' are basically creating non-foods to taste like food, and our wonderful and intricate bodies that have survived millennia because of well-balanced biological systems are essentially being used as an experiment that - as mentioned above - has not yet seen the full extent played out, because it has only been ramped up in the past few decades. Eurgh, sorry, I'm trying to type this with multiple distractions, syntax is terrible.

*some apparent UPFs like Weetabix for example wouldn't be classed in the same category as a microwaved meal that has 100 ingredients, most of which you can't pronounce, and certainly wouldn't find in the supermarket if you wanted to recreate said meal.

I think the key is to choose a few easy wins. If you can't buy the ingredients in the shops, just try and make your own version. It isn't even about being healthy. I bake cakes and biscuits. I make my own muesli, bake my own bread - with a super easy recipe, I'll share! - and only have natural yoghurt. I make my own smoothies and then freeze them in lollypop ice moulds for the kids. I now home cook 90% of the meals we eat, and as a natural consequence I've just started being even more aware of the rest of our diet, so for example I made my own baked beans today. Some UPFs in your diet will therefore be ok (I think my aim is to be 80% non-UPF) and there are some things, like ice cream, that I will eat forever because I love ice cream!

I'm in America too, where it is 100 times worse. There are chemicals and dyes and hormones in the foods here that are banned in other countries, so for the sake of my kids I've become open to change. I do recommend watching videos of or reading the Ultra Processed People book by Chris von Tullekan as a starter project, he's very engaging and accessible.

We're trying to eat less UPF. We try and cook more from scratch rather than trying to find ready made foods without UPF. So today I had a smoothie made with kefir, frozen fruit and ground flaxseed, homemade sourdough and butter, with homemade butternut squash soup (both from the freezer), and for tea roast potatoes, pan fried plaice, steamed green veg and a homemade tomato, roasted pepper and chilli sauce. Later I might have a scoop of homemade chocolate ice cream or a chocolate cereal bar I made for the kids.

I tend to cook in bulk and freeze a lot which makes this easier. And I don't stress about the odd tin of baked beans or fish fingers. But I try not to buy ready meals or ready made snacks.

It’s not rubbish. It’s very basic science.

People who say “oh what a lot of nonsense, all food is processed” are completely missing the point.

Simple example. What would you expect ice cream to be made of? Cream, sugar, egg.

on the other hand, Tesco vanilla ice cream only contains one of these ingredients - sugar. All the other ingredients are not ones you would expect to find in ice cream and that is a problem:

INGREDIENTS: Reconstituted Skimmed Milk Concentrate, Sugar, Partially Reconstituted Buttermilk Powder (Milk), Coconut Oil, Palm Stearin, Palm Oil, Dextrose, Palm Kernel Oil, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Flavouring, Stabilisers (Guar Gum, Locust Bean Gum), Vanilla Pods, Colours (Algal Carotenes, Beetroot Red, Curcumin).