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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not know whether to try for Grammar School for DS

17 replies

NameChangedJuly · 27/07/2024 10:14

DS is about to go into Yr 5. There are a few options for grammar in the area but competition is very high. it’s not consistent how many from his primary get offered. Some years none, some a small handful.

DS is bright, but it’s hard to work out where he fits compared to his peers in both his school and the other local primaries, without going through the whole application/exam process.

Is there a way to know what an individual child’s chances are? I don’t really want to put him through all the pressure/stress of 11+ or extra tutoring, and the possible disappointment, if chances are very slim. On the other hand, I’ve heard that even the brightest of kids can’t just rock up without any tutoring.

OP posts:

Oneearringlost · 27/07/2024 10:24

We put our son through 11+ for a grammar school, MILES away, in the next county. In retrospect, it would have made life v v difficult.
He didn't get in.
It was a valuable lesson in how to deal with disappointment.
He went to the local Comp. Did well, got to Bristol to study Physics and got a 1st in his degree and a 1st in his Physics Masters.
With support, comfort, curiosity, your DC may well do extremely well elsewhere.
But I understand your dilemma. X

101Nutella · 27/07/2024 10:24

Do some past papers with a tutor as a one off to see where he is? The verbal reasoning is what can trio people up if you’ve never seen it before, so it’s worth just helping him with that a little bit.

nothing to lose going for it. He won’t feel pressure if you don’t frame it that way. It’s not a big deal unless you make it one and imply it’s the end of the world if he doesn’t achieve it- obvs you won’t do that.

Hoppinggreen · 27/07/2024 10:33

Apart from ability the real question is does he want to go?
I know that as a parent its your choice but if your DS isn't motivated to do any extra work and push himself to do well in the exam then he won't.
DD did practise papers at home and had a tutor once a fortnight from mid Y5 but she put the work in without being made to and did really well. From the others in her year who took the exam only the DC who wanted to go to The Grammar did well, the reluctant ones didn't get a place

Original poster

NameChangedJuly · 27/07/2024 10:42

Hoppinggreen · 27/07/2024 10:33

I think he would really want to go but we haven’t spoken to him about it properly yet. I don’t want him to be really keen, get hopes up and be disappointed unless it is a realistic possibility, which is what I’m trying to work out.

OP posts:

usernotfound0000 · 27/07/2024 10:47

Can you chat with a teacher? We live in a non-grammar school area but have just one reasonably close. DD is same age as yours and has been doing tutoring since May. We spoke to her teacher at the last parents evening and she said it was definitely worth doing if she wanted to go. We signed up to a tutor who did a free assessment, we asked him the same and he agreed it was worth doing. Even if she doesn't get in, she has definitely benefited from the tuition which for the most part she enjoys doing.

Original poster

NameChangedJuly · 27/07/2024 10:53

We wouldn’t accept an offer or even do an exam if he wasn’t keen. However, the school visits/tours are in September / October of year 5, so i wouldn’t take him on the visits, for him to set his heart on the school, knowing he has next to no chance of that makes sense?

OP posts:

StevieFae · 27/07/2024 10:53

My DS decided it for me when I was worrying about how he would deal with it if he didn't get a place.

His reasoning
‘you know, it is quite simple…if I get this number of marks, I will go to the grammar school because that is the right school for me... and if I get a different number of marks, I will go to a different school because that is also right for me’.

I relaxed from that point.

usernotfound0000 · 27/07/2024 10:56

We have just explained it to DD that it isn't a pass or fail, that she might do really well in the exam but if more children perform better than her that year then unfortunately she might not get in. It depends on the child too. DD is keen to go to the grammar but we haven't made it the be all and end all and we have said chances are low - based on it being the only one in the area rather than her ability and she is fine with that. But you know your child and how he might react with not getting in.

Original poster

NameChangedJuly · 27/07/2024 10:57

A single session with a tutor sounds like a good idea. Hopefully they would be honest/open in terms of whether it’s worth going for.

OP posts:

usernotfound0000 · 27/07/2024 10:59

If you have a Kip McGrath in the area, they offer a free assessment.

Original poster

NameChangedJuly · 27/07/2024 11:03

DS is a bit of a mixed bag re reacting to disappointment. So sometimes he takes disappointment really well (e.g. cancelled holiday, change of plans, he/his team not winning at Sport), and it doesn’t really affect him at all. But other things (e.g. his best friend moved area, ) will change his personality for weeks and he’ll still talk about it months later.

OP posts:

Original poster

NameChangedJuly · 27/07/2024 11:04

Thank you! Some really helpful advice 😊

OP posts:

Greenqueen40 · 27/07/2024 11:10

I didn't hesitate and my DS now travels to another county and has a slightly longer day but goes to one of the best grammar schools in the region. He needed tuition though as the exam is more of an IQ type test and I doubt any child would be able to just show up and pass it without some sort of practice. I agree fully with talking to his teacher to get an idea of whether he would have a good chance at passing. Just don't make a big deal about it, I just said to DS we can have a go and if you don't get it then you will go to a local school with more people from your primary school. He was happy with that and luckily has made friends easily.

mugboat · 27/07/2024 11:18

My DD is very bright and naturally able at maths and science. She also works hard and enjoys learning... I assumed she'd get into the local grammar school if I prepped her. Sadly she missed out by 2 marks.

We did causal prep in y4 and more intensive prep in y5 with a tutor and 20 mins a day regular exercises, and 6 months prior, a past paper every weekend.

I didn't realise until it was too late that the grammar is a 'super selective'... I.e. very popular and not many places. People prep the hell out of their kids, from a very young age. They spend a fortune on tutors and prep schools. I know someone who went to that school and she was doing prep and past papers since the age of 5. She got 100% in her test apparently!

In addition, the marks are age adjusted so her September birthday went against her. Her scores on the past papers indicated she'd get in but I didn't account for her needing to get a higher mark.

So, in our case, being bright and motivated wasn't enough. We needed to have been more focused because of the other children she was up against.

I'm proud of her efforts and hard work and we rewarded her after she sat the exam for the efforts.

I think it has probably worked out for the best. She got a place at our local sch that I thought we would be out of catchment for. Her friends are going and she can walk there. Her younger siblings can go to the same school too (I don't think they would have been up for any grammar prep).

WinterFaye2 · 27/07/2024 20:24

We live in a Grammar area (saturated really) and everyone, literally everyone has a tutor for their child.

I personally hate the system. It isn’t a measure of ability merely the ability to learn how to pass the 11+ test. So you are right when you say that there’s really very little chance of a child passing if they haven had specific 11+ tutoring.

Someone in my DS class started in year 3 (although the child seems willing). I’m sure more parents have started in secret.

i don’t know what to do myself for DS so sorry I’m no help here. I struggle with the thought of less extra curricular time to try new things/passions. They are only children for so long!

l1s4 · 11/08/2024 14:04

if you aren't that bothered about him attending I would just say let him take the test with no tutoring but maybe a bit of prep or practice just to see what the exams are like. I'm 15 I did 2 11+ exams, the first one for my first choice school, and the 2nd for my back up school. I did no tuition and no practice before hand and despite passing both I didn't get into my first choice school because my score was too low. when I took my first 11+ I was honestly really lost. I was confused on where to write my answers and whether I'm allowed to go onto the next page or not as I had no previous experience so ended up not even answering large portions of the paper. On my second exam I scored significantly better and I knew how everything worked, so i think doing some practice exams or even taking him for a mock exam would help a lot

rosesinmygarden · 11/08/2024 14:14

I'm an 11 plus tutor.

Do you have any CAT or similar test results? They can be a good initial indicator of ability.

Depending on which 11 plus region you're in, he may need to practise Maths, English, Verbal and Non Verbal reasoning.

The pass mark usually changes from year to year according to the ability of the cohort. It's literally a race and the top x% get a pass. He'll be competing against other children who will have been heavily tutored. Some will do little prep and still pass, but that really depends on the child.

Happy to advise if you have any questions.

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