Are my neighbours being unreasonable?

[PawsAndReflection]

Hello!

We've recently bought a new house and our neighbours at the end of our garden are looking to redo the outside of their house.

They came by today to ask for permission as the work would require scaffolding in our garden, and were surprised to find seating and an olive tree in the area.

They've asked if we can move the olive tree and seating in order for them to have the work done, but I'm a little concerned about moving such a big tree. Does anyone have experience with this?

They were making out that it really wasn't a big deal but I've been researching it and it seems not quite as simple as they're making out.

Say yes to the furniture and no to the tree… their scaffold company will be more than capable of working around it!!! I think you should give them access, otherwise you might be preventing them with the upkeep or essential maintenance on their house. There’s no reason to not allow access for straightforward maintenance work…

"When does 'cosmetic' become more than that? Eventually, buildings need painting and maintenance."

A very good point. I would say that it falls along a line. At one end of the line there is the case where the neighbour wants to repaint merely because he doesn't like the colour.

At the other end then, yes, work undertaken for primarily aesthetic reasons can possibly be regarded as being reasonably necessary.

But one of the things to consider is going to be location. There is a saying:

"what would be a nuisance in Belgrave Square would not necessarily be so in Bermondsey"

The level of finish that should be counted as being reasonably necessary for a building to maintain may be dependent on the location and also whether it is visible from elsewhere.

No reason? There are many.

@PawsAndReflection i think you’ve taken this the wrong way - very possible the contractor has insurance for accidents etc and I think your neighbour is saying it’s tye cobtractors doing the work so these questions are for them really. I think you’re being unreasonable. It’s just a wooden bench and a smallish tree.. what is the work?? I expect it’s just redoing the facade of their house in which case this is quite essential and if you don’t allow them reasonable access I think you’ll find yourself in hot water. Why won’t you let them do the work?? I can’t see it being that disruptive to you.. from your posts I think you’re just being a difficult to be honest…

I mean are you expecting them to never ever do the facade of the house whilst you live there?? What are you really expecting? I’m not being sarcastic I’m genuinely curious; what do you expect or hope them to do when they need to repair or redo that side of their house in future? I’d be aware of the ins and outs of the project and aim to minimise disruption but equally happy they are up keeping their house seeing as it borders on your garden. If they did nothing you might find in 10 years some of the render drops off into your garden whilst you’re sat enjoying the sun!!! Better to let them do it now. Ask them to speak to the contractor and ask them your questions directly.

I assume it must be in a pot because if it’s in the ground then that would be a ridiculous request! I would say no. They will find a way. Also have they got insurance for having scaffolding on your land to cover any damages??

I’d say no at this point and what pp says. You don’t have to pay anything for work they want done. It’s entirely at their cost.

Report to police for harrassment.

Move the tree - its a very stupid place for a tree and as PP said, it will either die if it can't escape the tiny planter, if it does and puts roots there, its potentially going to damage the neighbours wall. Even if it doesn't damage the neighbours wall, you run the risk of them maliciously complaining that it has/is/will...

If you think that seems unlikely... I am STILL battling with the neighbour next door but one (as is my immediate neighbour) who has an insurance company trying to seek damages from the two of us, for damage to garage and house (huge cracks, dangerous movement of the walls)... supposedly caused by tree roots.

They've sent detailed reports, surveys on the types of tree, photos, ground plans... lengthy detailed scary shit about how much this is going to cost us.

The tree in question, they claim is in both my garden and my neighbours garden (but not on the joint boundary), and really very relevantly...

Doesn't exist. Has never existed. It is a wholly imaginary tree. Fictional.

Anyway - once tree is moved...

Tell the neighbours to fuck off with their scaffolding and fuck off with their idea that you get to pay the extra for work on their wall. And then fuck off some more because they're absolute cunty fuckers.

oh and this would all be because of that shitty response to sensible questions.

If they'd have come back to you to say 'we need to maintain that wall to ensure the render doesn't drop off/paint doesn't fall off etc'... 'the builders will take roughly x long, we'll do our best to ensure they get on with it, we'll supply their full contact details and insurance details and cough up for the least intrusive way of doing it and keep you up to date all the way through'...

Then I'd have been amenable.

There would be absolutely no discussion from me with my neighbours if they had sent me an email with such a ridiculous list of demands.
Cheeky bastards doesn't even cover it. They have no right to access to your garden for their building work and their snotty attitude would make me more determined.

Channel your inner 80's Grange Hill and
Just Say No.

Given the follow up e-mails and voicemails, it’s a simple ‘No’ that’s needed here.
Then park it and don’t worry about it again.
If they ask ‘why?’, just say the terms upon which the work would be done from YOUR property are not acceptable.

Given your update, I would absolutely be saying no to any access whatsoever.

If they are cheeky enough to suggest you cover some of the costs then they are cheeky enough to go a lot further once the work is being done.

She won't be in for a shock. They are allowed reasonable access for repairs. The OP does not need to pay their contractors the extra they wish to charge and it is reasonable to expect there to be an agreement about what happens if the contractors damage anything on OP's property.

I don't think the OP has taken it the wrong way.

The neighbour is expecting the OP to share the costs of the scaffolding!

"I expect it’s just redoing the facade of their house"

It does sound as though the neighbour is painting the side of the property. The OP has said:

"I also finally had clarification on the work they need doing and it's 100% cosmetic."

You then said:

"...in which case this is quite essential and if you don’t allow them reasonable access I think you’ll find yourself in hot water."

I'm sorry, but painting your side wall is in no way "essential"

"I can’t see it being that disruptive to you"

The OP's reasonable expectation of privacy will be compromised. She will also be inconvenienced by the presence of the neighbours workers on her property and the scaffolding as well along with concerns of damage to her property.

Many people on MN can give you examples of bad experiences of having to suffer workmen in their garden with the noise and loss of privacy that that involves.

"what do you expect or hope them to do when they need to repair or redo that side of their house in future"

That's an entirely different matter and in that situation they would be entitled to come onto the OPs property, but the OP would also be entitled to seek compensation for substantial loss of privacy or other inconvenience.

I am really intrigued by the invisible tree!

How bizarre!

Cheeky bastards, absolutely no!!

Well they sound difficult to communicate with but I would let my neighbours put scaffolding in my garden. I've done this before in fact, it wasn't a problem. You don't know when you might require the same.

I wouldn't agree to move any type of tree. If you buy an olive tree that isn't tiny you're looking at hundreds of pounds. But that's not really the point.

If they want to improve the exterior of the house then you might think it is cosmetic but it's actually essential. External coverings don't last and eventually can cause damp due to water ingress that can't escape so at some point it will be more urgent. I don't really see what the problem is.

We've recently bought a new house and our neighbours at the end of our garden are looking to redo the outside of their house.

This is slightly odd.

Did the olive tree come with the house?

A tree like that takes years to grow. (Assuming you are in the UK and you may not be.) And the benches look old and worn.

So did they belong to the previous owners? If so, I apologise profusely for saying you were wrong to plant it. But it's a little confusing.

If you have moved recently, as you say, then you need to go back to the solicitor who did your conveyancing and get some clarity on what next.

You don't want this to escalate to a 'dispute' which will be a negative when you decide to sell.

I will not go into it but I've been absolutely fucked over twice now by neighbours who were "lovely" until they did not get what they want. Just tell them a firm NO. We got into something similar and it cost £1000's in solicitor fees. They are absolutely taking the piss. You do not need this.

I'm inclined to agree with PP that the olive tree is not in the best position either for the tree or possible damage to the neighbouring wall. The seating isn't exactly beautiful either. It may be an idea to replace all that with a potted tree and nice moveable seating. This is not to satisfy your barmy NDN's demands but to ward off future issues.
You either give them a simple "no, end of discussion" or you reply more fully dismantling each of their points and countering with what you understand to be the legal protocol. Quote legislation, planning law etc if necessary. They sound ignorant and entitled.

I think that the good old Fife expression of "Get tae..." would be an appropriate response.

Wow...
Initially, I was going to go against the grain and say do it as I'm all for helping neighbours out but having seen OP's updates 😳😳 That's some crazy stuff!

Just say no.

Take photos of your garden, their wall, ensure they’re dated.

Keep a written record of all your interactions, including screenshots of missed calls and contemporaneous notes of any face to face conversations: you may not need this, or you may. No harm in doing it.

Don’t let emotion cloud your decision making. You will pay for it. You have no obligation to them, so keep it factual and to the point. Ignore their emotions.

Given their attitude, it's a hard no. CF at it's worst.

We had no choice but to put scaff in a field next door by about ten inches. We asked permission, signed an agreement to put right any damage and gave the farmer a bottle of whiskey, a tonne of chocolate and a box of drying off tubes.

Fucks sake, why are people like this?

Obviously refuse them coming into your garden at all. Don’t they require a 3rd party wall agreement if it affects your property? Which, btw, needs to be issued 3 months in advance of any work starting.