I find my daughter very stubborn

[summer20241]

She’s only 9 and I’m looking for advice and guidance to stop things escalating when she gets older. Please no comments on my parenting. I am really trying and just looking for some advice Example of things: I asked her to brush her teeth this morning and she started screaming at me “NOT YET” I asked her calmly again. She refused then I said she won’t have breakfast till her teeth are brushed. When I try to brush her teeth myself she shouts and screams.

She’s okay and quite lovely when I don’t ask her to do anything but it feels like she tries to argue on purpose with me at times. I’ve been researching online and found ODD (oppositional defiance disorder). She fits the description. It’s just when she’s asked to do things.

I’ve seen how these threads go when I tried to research on mumsnet! I’ve never posted about her before but I’ve read lots of threads and I’m worried about posting on here as I have a feeling this will go one of two ways from other threads I’ve read. Please give me some practical advice and your experience of kids that were like this and how did they grow up? The same or things get better as they age? Thanks in advance

It's so not helpful when people say 'she wouldn't do that in my house' 'she'd have learnt that years ago' 🙄

I hate brushing my teeth before breakfast because then everything is minty.

I think when we encounter power struggles like this with dc it’s time to reassess as a parent and step back a bit. Their behaviour is telling us they are ready to take more responsibility themselves. I know it sounds counter-intuitive. But nine year olds are perfectly able to brush their own teeth.

The time to discuss it is not in the pressured moments before school. And give her more choice about when she does it. Give her more ownership of the task. Go to the dentist and let him or her tell your dd what she should be doing.

Having a parent constantly hover over us is horrible; it gives the underlying message that we are not trusted or competent. Having someone try and brush our teeth at nine years is way too controlling.

Think about your reactions when you are given something at work that you don’t want to do op and keep things positive and encouraging.

A physical chart is better. Children do benefit from seeing the chart and in fact visual images can be better than words even for very articulate children! and from the action of ticking things off, and from seeing what's been ticked off. And it gives them independence, they're not relying on you to tell them what to do next. Lower conflict.

Pick your battles, the important thing is she cleans her teeth rather than the order. so
When she says 'Not now' say, 'Okay but we have 30 mins before we need to leave so when will you do it?'. Or have a chat with her and get her to write a plan for mornings, tell her you don't like nagging her so what's her plan to fit everything in?

Let her have some autonomy over small things. She's learning independence....and also being able to say no is a good skill to learn, especially for girls who are often taught to be people pleasers!

@outofbattery Ooh I like the big hug at the end! D'you know I never thought of that.

I'm wondering about this more holistically. Firstly is it just a phase she'll grow out off, trying to assert more independence, secondly, is she screaming and acting out at school and with her peers? Thirdly does she have routines, boundaries and age appropriate responsibilities? Are boundaries consistently maintained?

it's a goodun!! Doesn't always happen from left to right though, big hug can hit at any time! Sometimes faces are washed before using the loo, though mostly after brushing teeth. Encourages a bit of autonomy.

Look at pathological demand avoidance too. Even if she isn't affected by it, the strategies could be helpful.

I second this. Demand avoidance is something all children will have from time to time, so rephrasing 'demands' can definitely help: "I'll put your toothbrush just here, dd", for example. So you set the expectation without making the demand specific. How is she when you give her a choice, but both options achieve the same outcome? So things such as "teeth before breakfast, or after breakfast?" Sometimes that works with dd, sometimes not. I've noticed that when she's nervous, anxious, angry, excited etc that she actually prefers fewer choices. I use demand avoidance strategies quite a lot when she's dysregulated and her avoidance of demands is therefore heightened.

What type of toothpaste are you using obviously use a good one but I had sensory issues around strong mint toothpaste and I avoided brushing my teeth a lot and ruined my teeth. My mum never brought the sparkly bubblegum flavoured kids toothpaste but id recommend getting that.

When my 9yo doesn't want to get ready for bed I will word things more like "are you putting on pyjamas or using the bathroom first?" So it sounds like she's getting a choice but she still has to do both things.

Less confrontational than "put your pyjamas on now"

Brushing your teeth before breakfast is better for your teeth. Firstly because it protects your teeth from the acids from eating breakfast and secondly because if you don't leave 30 minutes between eating and brushing than the enamel on your teeth is affected.

OP perhaps you could try phrasing it differently ie 'dd your breakfast is ready to eat once you've cleaned your teeth'. Then leave her to it. Breakfast just doesn't happen until teeth are cleaned.

I think the best advice on here is pick your battles. It sounds as though you have an expectation of things being done your way and she wants to do things her way. She is looking to develop her independence and it just sets up a confrontation.
The important thing is that she brushes her teeth. There may be an optimal time to brush the teeth but is it worth an argument and everyone leaving the house in a bad mood feeling resentful.
When it's calm discuss the things with her that need to be done. The non-negotiables. You can write these down. As children get older they might find this a bit babyish though. I would start to give her some autonomy about how and when she does things. A confrontational approach will establish resentment on both sides and lead to poor communication as you go towards the teenage years.
Someone wise gave me great advice about ignoring a lot of surly behaviour at this age and taking a step back. It did really help

A physical chart is better. She gets the connection of doing the task and being able to tick something off. It connects a good fulfilling feeling to the task and turns it into a positive.

Instead of saying if you don’t brush your teeth you’ll lose the iPad turn it into a positive by saying if you go and do your teeth and do a good job you’ll have time for 5 minutes on the iPad before we leave.

as a parent to a ODD 19 y old and a PDA 13y old
im telling you consequences or punishments wont work
and especially orders or demands

that will escalate a situation a million times

how things are worded are the key and the tone its given in

😂😂😂

I used to think that….

Then we had one similar to op.

Diagnosed ASd and ADHD. Still demand avoidant now at 18

create some visuals with everything she needs to do and let her tick things off in the order she wants to complete them. This gives her more control.