Remove Travellers or relinquish land title?

[Toetouchingtitties]

I’ve recently become an Administrator for a relatives estate. As part of their estate, they owned a very small plot of land in a London borough, surrounded by houses. The land is fenced in and did have a padlocked entranced.

I visited recently to check everything was ok, to find Travellers, plus their horses have taken it over. This must’ve happened in the last few months. It was relatively contained and tidy before - but is now an absolute mess, covered with rubbish etc.

I’ve enquired with bailiffs about costs to remove them and it’s roughly the same as the land would be worth if I sold it. I do not want the hassle of managing the eviction, re-securing the site, cleaning it up and then selling it; especially as the estate will lose money overall.

So, I’m thinking of just relinquishing the land back to the land registry and walking away. But, at the back of my mind I’d feel somewhat guilty as the area is otherwise well kept by the local residents.

AIBU to save the estate money, but by doing so potentially impact the local residents enjoyment of the area? For clarity, I don’t know anyone who lives in the area, I don’t live locally and we don’t have any local family ties.

Ok. I’m not going to get hooked into certain aspect so this thread around Travellers per se.

I had an estate agent valuation, several months ago when it was vacant. It was based on no planning permission.

The plot itself is very small, in my opinion, but I have an architect drawing for a two bed house that fits it (that was produced by my relative for his application). It seemingly has enough space for a couple of caravans plus vehicles on the flat section, then the horses are on the grass bit where it slopes away. I suspect the horses are pastured during the day on the land next door (I’m currently establishing who owns it) - never owned a horse, no idea what space they need.

I contacted a Bailiff company who has given me a basic price, without court involvement initially. That’s fairly cheap. But… have indicated this will not stop them coming back, and to utilise the courts for the additional protection post removal. They have also given additional costs for machinery and additional staff, in case it’s needed. Basically I asked for the ‘worst case quote’. They suggested the plot was chosen as there is secure fencing around it, so is attractive for the Travellers.

I haven’t had a cleaning company come in to quote remediation costs yet, I’m estimating based on internet info.

I had originally thought it would make great allotment for the local area - it still can. But by the time I spend the estates money getting the occupants to leave, repairing the fencing, sanitising the site and hours of my time sorting it out, there is literally no difference between the estate agent quote and the estate costs.

I will obviously see if I can negotiate them leaving themselves first - so thank you for the people who have given me contact details for that.

I will look into a non-vacant sale (I admit, I didn’t think that would be possible until you lot pointed it out).

I really don’t want to keep hold of it for longer than necessary, as I’m 80 miles away and just don’t have the time for regular visits.

You’ve given me lots to think about, which I’ll do…

I certainly wouldn’t hand the land back. I think local people would pay over the odds to own this land just to evict the squatters. Absolutely letter drop as your first option.

What's to stop them returning?

Don’t do this.

As someone with a father in a subgroup of this community when a taxman came poking around, his response was to set our Rottweiler on the guy, and place an (illegally owned) gun to his stomach.

He did not come back.

Don’t start problems with travellers.

(I am NOT condoning this reaction).

Be careful accepting cash from these people. Some (though not all) will be in cash - and not legally gotten or taxed cash. I’ve had to turn down money from my own parents for this reason.

"You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm."

They're both when they're squatting in your area!

Exactly, I wouldn't give my stolen car to the thieves!

Our Lurcher taught me all about Hares
it must have been instinct- in the genes.( She’d never been trained or encouraged to chase Hare.

Spotted a hare separated from us by a tussock of grass
So close, has she bolted she’d have been at risk
Her huge amber eye was fixed on me- she obviously could sense Dog danger.

Just quietly called Lurcher to me and put her on lead and went a different way.

It’s movement that triggers Sighthounds - A hare who keeps her nerve stands a good chance of not being spotted.

Hares are magnificent animals.

OP, this might be a stupid question as you might've already answered this but do you know how long they've been squatting there?

I just woke the dogs and spilt my tea! I thought it was just me who knew it word for word.

Hopefully not squatting there too long - What are rules for adverse possession?
Is it 7 years?

Nemesis!

Maybe the local residents would be delighted if it became a community garden? Id love it if an otherwise ignored bit of land in our area could have a practical use (and not yet more tiny little new builds!)

I was there in April, and it was empty then. I’ve no idea when they turned up, but looking at the state of the place, it’s been a while.

We live opposite that common. The traveller children hassled anyone who took their children to the little play area on the common for money. Dirty nappies were left on the play equipment and the bushes and nearby woods were used as toilets. Locals avoided the common. The common was originally padlocked but the travellers broke that to enter. Fortunately the police evicted them within a week but the mess they left behind was horrendous. We watch the clean up operation. Contrast that with various events that take place on the common throughout the year such as a funfair and a circus. The common is left immaculate when they leave.

The land you talk of must be worth money. Don’t just give it away or sell to travellers who would make the lives of the people around them miserable.
Many here have given good suggestions that are worth investigating. Good luck sorting it out.

Sorry I’m rushing and haven’t had time to read all the replies so apologies if this is repeating. Your mother might still have to pay tax on her inheritance even if you give it away.

The travellers want money to move on. Either give them the money or get a farmer to come and spread slurry in the area. Good luck.

Sell it as it is. Someone will take a chance on it getting planning permission and be prepared to pay something. Put it in an auction maybe. Labour are planning to build lots of homes and remove barriers to planning so someone will take a punt - or a neighbour might buy it.

Have you ever seen the state of land occupied by travellers?
It's the dictionary definition of blight 'a thing that spoils or damages something'

It's very correct, and indeed admirable, to wish to think no ill of a minority group - I subscribe to those ideals myself, but in practice they foul whatever they go, so to pretend otherwise is to turn a blind eye to the reality of what they choose to do to their temporary locations. I've seen it soooo many times.

The clean up bill for the locals when they move on is immense.

Am effective method is to place massive quarry rocks across the entrance.
Also not cheap.

I believe they made it easier to remove travellers nowadays using common law and part of the Criminal Justice Act.

You just need to ASK them to leave, then put up a notice saying you want them out of the field in 24 to 48 hours and state what time they need to be out by.

If they haven't left by this time period then you are allowed to use force to remove them (but must be legal) so could get bailiffs in to do this for you.

You would then need to start the IMMEDIATE process of securing the field to prevent them re-entering. A local field near here that used this process had them out in less than 2 days! They then dug a trench and parked a car across the entrance making sure they couldn't get any caravans back in.

I would also add in their propensity to mistreat and abandon their animals when no longer of use.

They bloody well are given they've broken into and are squatting unlawfully on land that doesn't belong to them. I'd say this about any person who did this, irrespective of what they call themselves. I would definitely letter bomb the neighbours because if it was me I would buy it, hire a mini digger and start digging a ditch round them!

It might be worth seeing if there is a local Community Land Trust. If you could sell/donate the land to them.

I applaud you.
It saddens me but I can't tell you how many bad experiences I have had with these people to whom I have only ever shown normal human courtesy and respect.
I really want not to think badly of them, but to do so I'd have to ignore everything I've ever seen and experienced with them.

How do you feel about the excrement, rubbish mountains, threats of violence and vandalism and animal cruelty that seem to go hand in hand?

It isn't just a case of baseless prejudice, it's direct experience, so are people supposed to just ignore that?

I dont think you should let those who have illegally occupied the land win OP.