Being wrong = lying?

[turnipsandtiaras]

Bit of a random one, interested in your interpretations of the statement:

'Saying you are wrong, is very different to saying you were lying'.

Context - person A had found that person B had not done something correctly: Person A said to person B that they hadn't done something correctly and person B then said 'yes I have!'

Person A took this to mean that person B thought they were lying.

Person B says they were not accusing person A of lying, simply saying they believed they were wrong.

If you're still with me, is person A being unreasonable to think person B was saying they were lying?

Example:

Person A 'Person B, you've left the fridge open'

Person B 'no I haven't!'

Does that mean person B is causing person A of lying?

Nb - only 2 people in the house so it's not like anyone else could have been in the equation.

Which one are you?

Of course it's different. To lie, there must be intent - you must know what you are saying is false. If you are wrong, you believe what you are saying to be true, so you are not lying.

Person A sounds like one of those aggressive fools who goes around saying "Are you calling me a liar?" to anyone who dares challenge them.

No, They are saying person A is mistaken. Perhaps person A left fridge open and forgot?

Lying is deliberate - it's not the same as being mistaken or getting something wrong accidentally.

A: (sees B open frig and walk away, B laughing like a villain and muttering about spoiled groceries) You've left the fridge open!

B: (with evil grimace) No I didn't!

B is lying. Is this what happened?

Life’s too short, just let it go.

Yes, there is a difference between ‘being wrong’ and ‘lying’.

The number of times (usually at work) I have picked somebody on something only to be asked “are you calling me a liar?”

No, I’m not. I’m saying you have done something the wrong way, or not done something you were asked to. At no point was there an implication that they are untruthful, FFS

This is a big thing on X. You see this a lot in the trans 'debates'; person A states it's impossible for humans to change sex; person B retorts 'you're lying'.

I guess in the same way they believe the word 'woman' can now encompass men; they think that you disagreeing with them means, somehow, that you're telling a lie, rather than stating your (factual) opinion.

They are of course different. However we sadly live in a world where public figures and celebrities routinely attempt to paint lying as mistakes or misunderstandings. I think this leads to a lower tolerance for genuine errors as we see too many people getting away with poor behaviour by claiming they were simply mistaken.

However, in your scenario it really depends what person B actually knew. If they genuinely thought they were correct then it was just a mistake and they were wrong. If they knew they were wrong but were claiming that they were right they are a liar. Sadly for person A the response of person B is the same regardless and to therefore becomes a matter of opinion based on their knowledge of that person more widely than will colour their view. Is person B normally a reliable and trustworthy person to person A? Also kind of depends on whether it was reasonable for person B to have known they were incorrect, again a difficult thing to judge in some circumstances.

No, OP is saying that person A believed person B was calling them a liar.

Person A sees the fridge open and says 'Person B, you left the fridge open"
Person B says they didn't (perhaps person B hasn't used the fridge today).
Person A says "Are you saying I am lying, Person B?"

This is a bit confusing. I think I am following it, but I think maybe @Eleganz you've got your A and B mixed up?

Or perhaps I have 🤔

Some people, mainly but not exclusively children, find this distinction hard to grasp, especially if they are emotionally invested for some reason.

I think person A is being unreasonable. If I imagine it as like, A is a parent and B is a child, that makes it easier to differentiate them in my head.

Parent comes to child and says they've left the fridge open. Child protests and says no I haven't. Rather than giving them a fair hearing, parent piles a second accusation (of "are you calling me a liar?" type) on top of the first.

It is quite possible that the parent has it wrong and the child has been unjustly accused. But they have no way of making that clear, because they aren't being given a proper opportunity to respond.

(Same applies if they were both adults obv)

In your scenario, Person B is not lying, s/he is disagreeing. S/he thinks s/he has done the task correctly. Likewise, Person A is not lying: s/he thinks Person B has done the task incorrectly. Each or both people could be wrong but no one is lying. Person B has not claimed to have done the task but not actually done it - that would be lying.

Has person A or person B, or both, only a limited level of English? As in not native speakers?

However, on reflection, I can make it the other way round in my head. There are too many variables to be sure.

Say person A is a pet owner and person B is their spouse who doesn't really like the pet but puts up with it. No other humans in the home.

Pet owner sees that spouse has left gate open and garden insecure. This is against their agreed way of keeping pet safe. Pet owner knows they have to tell spouse about this because it is important. They go to tell spouse.

Spouse flatly denies it.

Back and forth.

Pet owner, exasperated, finally points out that they did not imagine the gate was open, it was open, and says something like 'It's almost like you are saying I'm lying.'

Spouse: 'No. I'm just saying you were wrong. The gate wasn't open.'

In that case, the spouse (Person B) is gaslighting Person A and being unreasonable.

So basically, I have written two short plays and will be casting them soon for production

So basically, I have written two short plays and will be casting them soon for production

I'm now on tenterhooks for the novelisation!

It's really childish and overly defensive. And completely misses the point.
What matters is, was the thing done correctly or not. That is factual, yes or no.
Nobody is a fucking liar. I'd get really pissed off with someone who responded to me disagreeing with them by saying that.
Just imagine surgeons or EMTs saying that to eachother during crucial points in their work! Ridiculous.

Person B is saying lying to shut the conversation down or start a fight if you won’t.

Thank you all. I'm not sure I explained it entirely properly.

Someone mentioned actually was English their native language and this is how the situation arose. I was having a conversation with a friend from Thailand and was trying to find an example and went with the fridge analogy which may not have been the best 🤣

In the fridge analogy there is fact, its been left open or not. A very different situation to how tp stack a dishwasher that's not so clear cut.

For it to be a lie, there has to be an element of deceit - not just a mistake.

I wouldn't generally think so. But surely it depends on person B's intention - they may well think that A is lying, they might also think they're wrong.

How did person A come to the conclusion they were being accused of lying by replying “yes I have” person B was obviously saying they had done what they should of done