To think people who work from home don’t get it?

[Wfhwhat]

It’s not just the reduced stress as no travel, but it’s also the reduced sick days as it’s easier to wfh than go in if unwell. It’s being able to have a contractor at your home instead of booking a day off. It’s cheaper. You have more time with family.

I work in the nhs so there is literally no scope for me to work from home. I do love my job but had I known office jobs would turn in to work from home, I wouldn’t have gone into the nhs. I know I could change if I wanted to… but it’s not exactly realistic. I’m 48, two kids, trained in what I do.

just having a moan really after seeing so many wfh photos on Instagram out in the garden today.

You are incorrect. It IS naive. Perhaps you misread what i was replying to.

"There should be a workplace premium of more than£££ for those who cannot WFH". The notion that there should be a premium for working in the office is naive. It's also a little narcissistic as it was written from the viewpoint that people who cannot WFH should get paid a premium for doing so. The person who wrote this comment clearly hasn't considered the knock-on effect for doing so. There are financially implications. There are environmental implications. There ARE also downsides to WFH and not everyone who does wants to WFH all the time. That's a myth.

But to give you an example of the economics. "Based on a survey of working arrangements among full-time employees across 34 countries in April–May 2023, Aksoy et al. (2023b) report a number of results on WFH. 8% of them fully WFH, 26% are in a hybrid work mode, and 67% work fully onsite."

So you think its reasonable to pay 67% a premium because they work fully onsite? Maybe read some research like this before assuming it's not naive: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537123001379

Maybe it's time for a change of job then. Surely part of what drew you to biomedical science was the lab work?
Or is it that you took it up before WFH was more common so you didn't even consider the pros and cons?

This a horses for courses argument. Not everyone is the same with the same circumstances and that’s why we have different options available to different people.

WFH is abhorrent to me. I have WFH twice, once when setting up my company as I couldn’t afford offices immediately and through COVID and never again if I can help it!!! I hate not being around others, I hate not having the banter of the office, I hate feeling isolated, I hate not having the proper work/life balance of shutting the office door at the end of the day and walking away and my staff are all the same.

Our jobs can be highly stressful at times so being together to blow off steam helps all of us. However, I have the flexibility to be able to offer them work from home on odd days if they need for something specific, which they are all very grateful for, but they wouldn’t choose to do it full time. We are all friends in our office and it’s a really pleasant place to be, we have lots of social interaction in our small team.

But, not everyone is like us, and for some WFH is a far nicer, better prospect as they may focus better without so much going on around them, they may have a disability that mean WFH allows them the ability to still work for their ongoing mental health or there may be a myriad of other reasons (although I do agree they should never be childcare or other things that take their attention away from their employed role during their designated working hours).

There are swings and roundabouts and arguments for and against on all levels of this, but the bottom line is different strokes for different folks!

I to though do wonder if, with government plans to up minimum wages, etc. that some employers won’t think that there is cost saving in outsourcing work wherever possible moving forward (wouldn’t work in my company, but I am sure there are many larger companies that it would work for) and I think the impact AI will have on the workforce/workplace in the longer term should not be underestimated!

"WFH is abhorrent to me. I have WFH twice, once when setting up my company as I couldn’t afford offices immediately and through COVID and never again if I can help it!!! I hate not being around others, I hate not having the banter of the office, I hate feeling isolated, I hate not having the proper work/life balance of shutting the office door at the end of the day and walking away and my staff are all the same."

This was my feeling about forced wfh during Covid, but the kind of wfh people do long term is quite different. Most places have hybrid working with up to about half the days being done at home. I work at the office 3-4 days a week now and it seems to be the right balance for me. Long-term only wfh would make me depressed and I would never take a job (or self employment) that was 100% from home.

How are these people working outside? Ever tried working on a laptop in the garden? Even on dull days it's impossible!

I think you're perspective is understandably skewed. I largely WFH due to caring responsibilities. I'm extremely grateful to my employer for facilitating this. However, it's really isolating, I have to try harder to keep up to date with things and I have had to devote some of my personal space to be a work space which frankly isn't great.

I'll be going hybrid soon and I cannot wait to spend some time in the office with real life people! Be able to turn to a colleague and ask a quick question without having to schedule a blooming teams meeting.

The main benefit of remote working is the fact that being in work is so much more accessible for people who have additional requirements such as disability or caring responsibilities (not parenting, I'm one of those and wfh should not replace childcare).

Your jealous because you can't work from home it's no one else's problem.
No one needs to think about you and feel sorry for you.
Change careers if you're that bothered.

Just too note my brother works from home since covid.
He would prefer to go into the office half the time he doesn't know what day it is, he gets no exercise during the day, it's unsocial.

You aren't thinking of the mental health impact and they aren't thinking of you either.

How are these people working outside? Ever tried working on a laptop in the garden? Even on dull days it's impossible!

Did it once many years ago and spent the rest of my laptop's life trying to ignore the thunderbug that got behind the screen!

Could not have articulated it better...... 🤔

Basic economics of supply and demand will solve that over time. If employers can't attract workers to work on their sites, they'll have to pay more, otherwise they'll not have staff - due to low supply of willing workers.

Likewise there'll be high demand for jobs that are fully WFH, so, again, simple economics, if there are high numbers of applicants for such jobs, the employer will realise they don't have to pay as much, so, again, over time, pay will fall.

None of that will be quick.

Of course we get it, we’ve been there! I work in public service, used to work 6 days on 3 days off, early, middle and late shifts until midnight, all bank holidays except Christmas Day and did so for 10 years. Then Covid arrived and changed everything. It’s made a massive change to work life balance. I changed role in the same service but now work 4 days on, 3 days off, normal office hours, all bank holidays off and only go into the office once a week. I saw what other people were doing and wanted a bit of that too with having a toddler and a baby.

I know it’s hard when some roles just won’t allow for WFH, but you need to decide what’s important to you - the role you do or the set up because sometimes you can’t have it all unfortunately.

If you work for the NHS then assume you are in a care profession, you chose that role because you are passionate about care.

it's like a teacher complaining they can't work from home

Although I work 9-5 in an office it’s only the management and key employees who get to wfh when it suits them, not unsurprisingly usually on Fridays and/or Mondays! It seems to be considered a perk for the so-called important people. The peasants like me and a handful of the other accounts/admin staff have to have our bums on seats 5 days a week. All of us could do what we do from home, but no we’re treated like children. Not allowing us to wfh, or even hybrid, just seems to be used to highlight a two tier system of the haves and have-nots.

It’s not all it’s cracked up to be - you have to be very focused and the blur between home life and work can be its own stress.
retrain, if you think you want to have more flex. There are plenty of NHS roles that offer flex.

personally I think the ideal is probably 1/2 office days 3/4 WFH

Except - they can if they change their circumstance! Move into education me, or online tutoring or in person tutoring etc
So OP could probably find a way - tell us what your job is OP - maybe we can help!

friend was a genetic researcher - NHS - very much lab based but now works for a publisher …

This is a part of the issue I feel. It very much depends on the employer, and I feel sorry for you having managers who in my opinion are unfit to hold the role.

The thing is, WFH opened up a lot of doors for skilled people with disabilities that had been closed before. There is a danger that going down the two tier route it could be argued to be disability discrimination if WFH is a reasonable adjustment for the same work. How do you fairly compensate staff for their talent if it all becomes about geography, whether necessary or not?

Exactly this. Which is why I'm usually suspicious of the motivations for managers/orgs who are "clamping down" on office presence. In a previous workplace, my ex-colleague friends said they are becoming very strict on a "3 together, 2 wherever" policy, but they've closed down offices so where are all those people going to go? And when you get there, you're on teams calls with colleagues in other geographies anyway...

It's also strange that since the WFH productivity boom it seems to take twice as long for many services I have to get anything done.

But when 99% of what you need doing is done via computer, then I’m not sure WFH is to blame? I do my job in exactly the same way, regardless of whether I’m WFH or in the office. I think that many places have less staff since COVID, I think that’s the problem

@zonder you can claim tax relief on those expenses

No idea what you're replying to - must have been some time ago!

This just sounds like your brother doesn't know how to manage his time and is lazy. If you work from home it's very easy to get exercise, you just make time for exercise. I have been WFH since COVID and I'm eating better BC I actually have time to prepare my meals and I take multiple breaks throughout the day to exercise. Not to mention since I'm done at 5 and not getting home at 9, I can still take our dog out for a walk.

Plenty of pros to working from home and I will never work in an office again. Luckily I'm a highly skilled worker in a job that has more vacancies than people to fill them so I can always make that demand.

This just sounds like your brother doesn't know how to manage his time and is lazy. If you work from home it's very easy to get exercise, you just make time for exercise. I have been WFH since COVID and I'm eating better BC I actually have time to prepare my meals and I take multiple breaks throughout the day to exercise. Not to mention since I'm done at 5 and not getting home at 9, I can still take our dog out for a walk.

@UnfriendMe I agree with you! I work from home 3 days per week and either exercise in my lunch hour, or take advantage of the extra time at the end of the day, when I don't have to commute, and go to the gym then. I'm also eating better since COVID, as I have more food prep time.

@UnfriendMe that depends on the job
My breaks are set and I can't move from my desk apart from those breaks

Well, I'm assuming you have a lunch break? You can exercise during the lunch break and eat at your desk. Either way, working from home gives the flexibility to manage your time much better than being in an office, not to mention no commute time. This was my point. Anybody who says they can't exercise when WFH are just being lazy.

I've worked longer hours since I started WFH. When I was going into the office I only had a 15 minute commute so I don't have any extra time left at the end of the day, I actually have less as I think 'oh I'll just finish that'. Lunch time isn't enough time to exercise, shower and wash and dry my hair. Thankfully I'll be out of this soon!