If I was ever autistic…. I outgrew it

[Finlandia86]

So to start off, let me say that I am far from ignorant about Autism, I have studied it at length and I know it is a condition present from birth / very early childhood and is not something you can outgrow.

Having learned a lot about Autism, including its presentation in girls, I look back on my childhood and see that I had a whole load of traits, including:

• Difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality, especially as a young child
• Long running obsessions as a tween and teen (characters in books and TV shows mainly, to the point where it would interfere with my life and I would secretly pretend I was them…see above)
• Fixations on certain people in real life (usually teachers).
• Social difficulties - being thought of as aloof and stand-offish when actually I was shy and didn’t know how to ‘be’.
• Avoided showering (couldn’t be bothered and didn’t see the point).
• Sensory seeking (chewing stuff all the time, humming all the time, tendency to jiggle/rock in my seat)
• Difficulty with eye contact (shyness and low self esteem)
• Difficulty organising myself and terrible procrastination, until hyperfocus kicked in (after days of tears)
• Black and white thinking about right and wrong / good and bad, and giving myself an extremely hard time because of this.
• Lots of examples of supremely cringy behaviour, because I didn’t understand how I would look to other people.

If I was a teen today, pretty sure I’d get a diagnosis.

But… at nearly 40 years of age … I have grown out of all of it.

Okay, not quite all. I am still a terrible pen chewer and procrastinator (although my hyperfocus superpower seems to have left me). But the rigid fixations and the social awkwardness… gone. Gradually, it has to be said. It took until I was about 26 to truly grow into myself and find my social confidence, and it was around then that I stopped fixating on both real and fictional people, which I think had a lot to do with finally developing some self-esteem. You’ll be pleased to know that I now shower daily.

I’m not sure where I’m going with this, as I imagine a lot of people will think I am trying to invalidate their diagnoses or those of their children… I’m not. But I guess I am wondering whether we can be a bit quick to diagnose ‘low support needs’ / Aspergers type autism, when actually it’s just a case of ‘quirky child’ / ‘immature teen’.

Or, I guess a different takeaway could be one of hope: that as a probably autistic person I have learned to navigate and overcome many of life’s difficulties by middle adulthood.

I suppose my question is whether anyone else can identify with my experience, and if anyone has any interesting thoughts about it.

@Rainbowsponge I'll bet they didn't spend their childhoods self harming and spiralling into deep depressions because they couldn't understand why they couldn't make friends though, right?

@ByLoudSeal can I ask what you mean by 'new criteria for autism'?
I'm aware that in the past no one would have bothered to assess someone for autism unless they had a significant learning disability, or were unable to live independently as an adult, or some other major reason such as being violent.
I'm not aware that the actual diagnostic criteria has changed though, more about how it's been applied.
(It's something I'm genuinely interested in, not being facetious)

I've said I'm not autistic, but sure.

But the fact is, you don't know that every person who has autism struggles more with this than every one who isn't. That's not definitional.

There are a lot of different factors that come into people's lives. My autistic niece doesn't struggle from masking at all - she doesn't do it. At all. Others struggle a lot.

Several posters here who are autistic have said they struggled more when young, but now don't.

You seem very invested in an extremely rigid idea of what autism is, and that what you and your child have experienced is what everyone else experiences, and also that it can never change.

There is a lot that is not known about autism, in fact it's really not known whether the way it is even really one condition, a group of related conditions, or even a group of unrelated conditions with similar symptoms, There is no objective test, and the disease history is very fuzzy.

You might not be so offended by people sharing their thoughts and experiences if you would accept that there are a lot of different human experiences and that there are significant disagreements and unknown factors about autism.

What a bloody stupid thing to say.

My own experience of autism is that one of the defining factors in it for me, is that some things in life just don't change, and I don't progress. And the older I get the more pronounced that difference is.

One of the lightbulb moments for me was going to a food hall type place and a friend and her children joined us last minute. None of us had been there before. Her primary age children quite happily went to find the external courtyard, ordered food from different vendors and came back to the table.

I had repeatedly looked up the place on Google, checked all the vendors, the menus, looked at the satellite options on Google maps to try and work out the layout, studied photos of the place and still felt really anxious when I arrived about having to go order, catch someone's eye, make a decision and understand how the 'system' worked (eg whether you hung around to hear your name called, got a buzzer to take back to your table etc)

I have a professional job, I've made it through uni, I've pushed myself to try new situations, be out of my comfort zone etc. Yet despite being capable enough to make socially acceptable progress in some areas of my life, I realised that the young children had surpassed me in that area at that moment.

I understand that we shouldn't force limits on anyone with a disability. At the same time though, accepting that I might have some limits - and not berating myself for a lack of progress, or burning out by trying to overcome those limits by sheer willpower - has been incredibly freeing.

I understand that we shouldn't force limits on anyone with a disability. At the same time though, accepting that I might have some limits - and not berating myself for a lack of progress, or burning out by trying to overcome those limits by sheer willpower - has been incredibly freeing.

@Wimberry, and I agree with all of this. Progres involves individual decisions. No-one can force it. I'm all for autonomy wherever possible.

It's like I'm happy slow running. Not pressuring myself on speed means I can enjoy it and not view it as a chore. Progress happens organically as I grow stronger and fitter with just doing it. I run everyday now, 10k so I have progressed from not being able to run at all. But no PT, no programme designed for someone else.

Any challenge in life can be like this. You don't have to take the challenge but if you do often just turning up for it is enough. See what happens, explore and learn from it. It's all experience we can learn from.

So to start off, let me say that I am far from ignorant about Autism,

You are really ignorant about autism.

Mumsnet said they had a problem with an autism troll, I wonder how they're getting on with banning them. 🤔

Do posters not get bored of starting these goady autism threads?

You said-

“I think something people need to understand is that everyone masks. It's totally normal.

And not always easy. For some people who are introverts, it can be extremely tiring. I'm not autistic, but I am an extreme introvert in a job that is in many ways very social. I love it, but at the end of the day when I get home, I am truly wiped.

It's also very normal that people are not so good at this in childhood but improve over time, and I would say even well into adulthood.

I sometimes get the sense that many autistic people think this is a unique experience which others don't have to deal with. It's not. It can be more extreme in some cases, and about different things, but it's normal in and of itself.”

You asked what my basis was for saying

“But you’re masking without all the additional challenges autistic people have on top and you’re not masking to the extent autistic people do”

in reply to the above.

You were focusing on masking not ND.

An autistic person has a huge amount of very big challenges that cause a significant impact on their life hence if being classed as a disability.Those that mask do it on top of these huge disabilities and they have more to mask. Being able to do and enjoy a social job just isn’t possible for many. The extent to which autistic people have to mask isn't normal behaviour because it isn’t normal to carry all the other things that give you a diagnosis on top.The link below gives some insight into it although it doesn’t discuss all the other debilitating things autistic people are also carrying along with masking.

You seem to have a very rigid and inaccurate view of autism and are focusing on masking above all else.

I don't think believing some people can overcome difficulties or improve the way they cope with them is minimising how challenging life with autism can be. It's simply a belief things can get better.

Doesn't mean support shouldn't be there for those that need it.

Doesn't mean other people should judge and put unfair expectations on others to progress and improve in the way they manage challenges.

It's simply a belief that progression is possible.

I get this belief is difficult when life is overwhelming. However, I think it is more difficult to live without hope. Any difficulty seems easier when it is viewed as being temporary. This doesn't mean I am less likely to be supportive. It means I am more likely to be - instead of giving up or running from a difficult situation.

@heyhohello it depends on your perspective.
Growing up undiagnosed, constantly feeling a failure about the simplest of things, constantly feeling that I should try harder (and as an adult, completely burning out as a result) - someone saying 'progression is possible' feels quite hurtful to be honest. It reinforces that notion that it's down to the individual to make themselves a bit less autistic.
Societal expectations mean that many people with disabilities internalise the expectation to progress, and beat themselves up when they can't.

Personally I know there are some areas I can and do progress in. Academically. Artistically.
But communicating using body language? It's not going to happen. It's not going to progress.

@Wimberry

Growing up undiagnosed, constantly feeling a failure about the simplest of things, constantly feeling that I should try harder (and as an adult, completely burning out as a result) - someone saying 'progression is possible' feels quite hurtful to be honest. It reinforces that notion that it's down to the individual to make themselves a bit less autistic.

Firstly no one is qualified to label you a failure. Saying progression is possible is not about saying you should be progressing or be less autistic. It's about saying it's not necessarily impossible to learn and to progress from a particular starting point. Responsibility can be a frightening concept as soon as there is a realisation a response is possible. However, that responsibility isn't all on the individual. Other people can make it easier by helping find the responses that are manageable. Whether that be through support or research.

But communicating using body language? It's not going to happen. It's not going to progress.

And that's fine. You decide the things you wish to accept about yourself. Tbh I don't know whether my body language does what I want it to. I don't give it that much scrutiny. I couldn't expect you to constantly scrutinise your own without being a total hypocrite.

But masking isn’t about executive functioning it’s about social functioning.

@Wimberry that sounds very familiar I took my mum out for lunch on her birthday to somewhere I had never been before. I hadn't even been to the area the place was in. And there was lunch to navigate. Assessing where to sit took time, as far away from others as possible incase I can hear them eating, or they talk too loudly, checking the menu for acceptable items depending on the latest acceptable foods, then going up to order. I ordered and then stood there totally frozen because I didn't know the system. Would the guy bring our drinks over? Should I wait? Will he bring the food over or do I wait for that too? How will he know where we are sitting? I went back to the table then thought that was probably wrong so went back to the counter where he handed me the numbered spoon I'd forgotten he'd put on the counter and he walked over with me to our table. The anxiety was significant and it was just a casual bloody lunch at a chilled out place. I look round at other people laughing and chatting and wonder what that's like as I stress over how to eat my meal, IF I can eat it if it doesn't look or taste quite right, and oh no, what if I can taste the eggs in my slice of cake because then I won't eat it. Then there's the paper napkins that will feel and sound awful and set my teeth in edge so I can't use them or bear for anyone else to use them. Other people just go out for lunch. Ideally I'd never go out for lunch but sometimes I have to play normal for want of a better word. It isn't just me being shy (I'm not actually shy at all) or socially awkward or being quirky. It's fucking exhausting and I was overwhelmed and in tears before we'd even got to lunch. This is my normal.

I don't think other people do just go out to lunch especially when it's a new place. I just think nobody talks about all this other stuff which is why ND people think NT people don't do all this

Plenty of people, myself included, certainly do just go out for lunch without a second thought, even or especially to a new place. I suppose I am in the NT category, not having been diagnosed (nor self-diagnosed) with any ND condition. There are definitely difficulties I have which overlap with autistic traits (and have made me wonder), but going to new places is not one of them. That said, I'm sure there are "NT" people who get stressed about unfamiliar places, but have no problem with social skills, for example.

It's interesting prior to this thread if I was going to self diagnose which I wouldn't as people really shouldn't, before people jump down my throat I'm fully aware of how annoying this is from people who self diagnose bpd. I would of leaned more towards adhd but since reading this post I definitely would more say autism unless you can have both.

There's nothing quite like having one's autistic experience invalidated on an autism thread by someone who doesn't have autism. Cheers for that @Differentstarts It's not a competition or race to the bottom. Did you know that BPD,or EUPD as it is now called, is often misdiagnosed in undiagnosed autistic and adhd women? The EUPD symptoms are often a result of undiagnosed ND.

I absolutely do which is why iv spent so long trying to get it of my records it wouldn't surprise me if in 10 years the bpd diagnosis no longer exists and mh professionals have to actually do their jobs. I'm fully aware that it is now called eupd but I refuse to use that term as I don't like being called emotionally unstable as it just adds more stigma to the most stigmatised condition to exist.

Agreed, but the word you are looking for is neurodivergence. A person cannot ‘have’ neurodiversity.

Self diagnosed BPD has always baffled me, My own BPD diagnosis has followed me about like a bad smell. It is not a label you want.

I wish I could thank your post more than once. This whole thread has been really upsetting and disappointing because I foolishly thought attitudes towards ND people had progressed more than this.

A lot of people (invariably women) are misdiagnosed with BPD/EUPD when they’re actually autistic, but it has increasingly been theorised that “BPD” is actually a subtype of CPTSD. I think this is probably accurate. Virtually all people with “BPD” have endured significant developmental trauma.

To be fair, you’re getting anxiety and autism confused here…

It is possible to have all your concerns and to have learned to barrel straight into situations regardless, f**g up at every turn, and doing a super-bubbly, cheery ‘oops, sorry for the confusion!!’ Boris Johnson/dippy blond act to cover it up. That’s my persona, as it were (let’s not use ‘mask’ because people use that term very differently). Yes, you do need to be a relentless extrovert with a skin as thick as a rhino to pull that off, but - seeing my DS4 - such people exist and I’m probably one of them.

You can also always ask questions. Loads of questions. Abnormal amounts of questions. “Hey, how does this work? Do I take a spoon? Will you bring drinks over or do we wait here?” I’m not diagnosed autistic, but my DS7, who is diagnosed autistic and has an EHCP for school, uses that as a major coping strategy.

I mean, what’s the worst that can happen if you make a social mistake in a cafe you don’t normally visit? Someone you don’t know and won’t see again might think you’re a bit weird. Screw them. Or what if you find out you don’t like the cake you ordered? Just eat the ‘safe food’ you brought in your bag (you do carry a ‘safe food’ in your bag, right?)

Life’s too short to have it wrecked by judgemental tools.

This is especially important if you have DCs and they’re (also) autistic. The greatest gift you can give them is the power to feel they can demand your entire group treks across town to a specific cafe, that they can leave any venue where the napkins are too loud, and - if you don’t know what to do - you just ask. My DS7 has actually walked up to people in public toilets, while I’ve been in the cubicle, and said, “please don’t use the hand driers around me. I’m autistic”. I couldn’t be prouder of him.

I would do that too, I'm not on the spectrum though I have OCD and like to know in advance what to expect. I need constant reassurance what to do so I don't embarrass myself (usually do anyway though) and I find it hard to take in a lot of information (especially verbal) am ok if I've been somewhere before and know what to expect. .