Private school fees - act now for SEND!

[BellesAndGraces]

The King’s Speech is scheduled for this Wednesday (17th July) and it will be followed by 4 days of debating Labour’s proposed legislation in Parliament, including the introduction of VAT on private school fees.

If you have a child with special educational needs or a disability and send them to a private school because your local state school was unable to meet their needs but do not have an EHCP I would strongly suggest that you write to your MP and tell them why you send your child to a private school and how the charging of VAT on private school fees will affect you. Ask your MP to stand up in Parliament and ask the government whether it is willing to expand the exception they have agreed to make for children with EHCPs to cover all children who attend private school in order to meet their SEND. If you share your story and circumstances with your MP you will be providing them with a case study they can refer to in Parliament about how charging VAT on private school fees will affect those of their constituents who are already dealing with the challenges that having a child with SEND can bring.

You can find out who your MP is and their email address here: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

Dont be daft

^^ ‘if I can’t have it why should yours’

The whole basis of this debate

I'd rather see the state support improve for all children with SEN.

@LoveSandbanks have you factored tribunal waiting times into that? That's what's actually causing most of the delay. The LA's clock stops on the 20 weeks every time you appeal.

@User6874356 but in this case the very thing that the original poster is advocating- trying to needle their MP about SEN provision- presumably in the hope that the policy will be derailed or watered down- will directly affect the other kids because there’ll be less money available to spend on teachers in the state sector if the policy can’t be enacted. So on this one issue I don’t think you can be in favour of all children, no. You’re in favour of only those who are privileged enough to buy themselves out of difficulty, leaving those who can’t afford this to suffer it with no real option.

(which technically should really have been being paid all along)

No it shouldn't.

Under EU law, education is exempt. Not just zero-rated, exempt. There is no way that anyone should have be paying VAT on exempt items.

But now, since Brexit, a government can change our sales tax; and the country has just voted in a government who has made ending sales tax harmonisation with EU a flagship policy.

I agree with many previous posters - apply for an EHCP do demonstrate that your DC's placement should fall within the rules for pupils with them. Perhaps even lobbying for provision for all DC who were in independent schools at the introduction of the tax to be eligible for refund if their DC gets an EHCP during that stage of education.

And lobby hard for better support for SEND (including the mild/moderate SpLDs that seem to attract sod all support as they're essentially unfunded, but which can have a major impact on affected children)

I think parents will need to brace themselves for this not happening. I haven’t seen anything to indicate to me that Labour will be able to afford significant changes to the SEN system - or anything else really.

Social care is the primary factor leading to council bankruptcy (see the Panorama doc), and in response to the Angela Rayner has said all they can do is give councils a heads up about how much money they’ll be getting further in advance, but not increase it. Many services have been cut because SEN or social care expenditure has risen so dramatically (in conjunction with one or two lesser issues).

The Guardian article shows how steeply the demand is rising and with this in mind the best they can do is tread water.

I massively oppose VAT for SEN children for this reason - we really need any parents who can or will fund their kids education to keep doing it, and not overburden them into going back to the state sector.

We all want a perfect world but sadly work with the one we have.

Yes, it will raise around 7p per child.

I do need gluesticks in my classroom but they're about a quid

This is silly. It's classic divide and rule. Get everyone squabbling about something that sounds good but won't fix anything while not dealing with the actual issues.

I don’t blame parents who went private because they could, or just about could, because the state system locally didn’t meet their child’s needs.

the worst kind of SEN parent imo are those who send their other children to expensive independent schools and know full well they would have done the same for their other child, but being articulate have secured an EHCP and get their child’s specialist education funded eg at one of the independent special schools where it’s about 50/50 LEA funded and parents paying privately, then on top an expensive taxi when they probably could do drop off themselves because they don’t work.

those families I think should be ashamed and I know a few around here.

Where did you see this @Boomer55 ?

if vat relief is offered for children with sen but no ehcp the private schools will simply assist parents in claiming their child has sen. 🤷‍♀️

This is already happening. A good friend of mine worked in a prep school until last week (she is going back to the state sector in September).

In her final couple of weeks she was inundated with requests to fill in forms saying how much extra support various children needed, in the hope that they would get an EHCP. She refused to engage, on the grounds that 1) in her view the children concerned didn't need any extra support and 2) no one ever suggested they did until it was seen as a way of getting round the VAT increase.

exactly this. Its a crowd pleaser, a divider, a great way to set "us" against "them" and hopefully divert attention from the far bigger issue of provision overall.

I’ve worked in two independent schools. They can use unqualified staff (as can academies in England) but generally don’t. The only teachers I met in either school who didn’t have QTS were being put through SCIT by the schools.

I had heard that it was just children with an EHCP and that EHCP specifically stated the need for that particular sort of private school setting.

Ironically, for all those complaining about funding children with SEND in private schools via EHCP taking money from other children, it is cheaper for the LA to pay my son’s school fees than to pay full time support plus the standard place fee in mainstream.

In an ideal world every child would have access to all the support they need. I hate this argument of ‘I can’t have it so you shouldn’t either’. Anyone who thinks VAT on school fees is going to somehow magically transform the financial position of state schools is very misinformed. Even if hardly any kids leave private schools, the amount generated will not do enough. I can’t afford private school but I don’t see why those parents who do pay it should be expected to fund even further a system they already help massively by not using it. Absolutely I support taxing higher earners and big business but this tax is based purely on a hatred for the concept of private education. Where do we go next? Parents who pay for private tutors so they pass the eleven plus? Parents who buy a house with a massive mortgage they can hardly afford to get in a decent catchment are? Of course not.

But the issue there is that the only schools available are private ones which cost local authorities an arm and a leg rather than their being properly funded specialist schools for all.

The only specialist school in a 40 miles radius of me who offer a full range of GCSEs is an independent one and the fees are extortionate. There is no properly funded state option - not because of lack of need there is plenty of need. On top of the cost of the school itself parents and local authorities generally spend a fortune going through courts to argue for the place.

the whole system is broken sadly. There is undoubtedly a place for some specialist independent schools but that is still an area full of issues and it shouldn’t be used to replace state provisions

Lots of bitterness on this thread
The OP was right to post this. Easy for everyone to jump on, but the EHCP process is dire & not speedy at the best of times. Likely by the time there's any major change there, their children will be through the school system. Yes, they're lucky to be able to circumvent the lengthy EHCP process, but the people paying EXTRA for private education are already contributing to your kids state education. Should they receive some kind of rebate on that? Everyone needs to grow up, you know you'd all be paying for better education if you could afford it, who wouldn't if money wasn't a problem?

No the absolute scum are the millionnaires who could afford private but instead choose to buy into million pound state catchments totally free. Then the money they would have paid for private gets invested in each child’s name. IMO if you earn above £100k you SHOULD pay for state education for all your children.

Sorry but this a joke, surely?

I have spent a lot of time campaigning to improve SEND for all. I have written to my MP, I have met with my MP. I have attended marches. I have given evidence to the Education Select Committee on exclusions and SEND. I've filled out consultations, I've joined lobby groups.

But I dont mind if parents, who have managed to buy SEND support, write to their MP to explain the impact of a change in VAT rules on their child.

It's not an either / or situation in my mind.

I'm generally pro anything that gets MPs thinking about SEND.

If this makes an MP think 'why couldn't this child be supported by the state sector? What's gone wrong?' That's a good thing.

Of course they can’t and won’t do that. The bar for “SEN” is a lot lower in private schools( special adjustments for exams are higher), there is no standardisation as regards rating SEN and nearly all parents will say (with school encouragement) that their child has SEN.

I find all these posts about children with SEN but without EHCPs being supported in private schools highly ironic because I have a child currently in state school (with an EHCP) whom I would love to send to a private school (with us fully paying the fees - not asking LA to pay) but I cannot find ANY private school in Surrey that does not already market itself as a specialist SEN school that is willing to look at a child with an EHCP.

I therefore find it hard to believe there are 100s of children at mainstream (not specialist) private schools who would qualify for EHCPs and their school willingly have them attend.

FWIW my DC is incredibly bright, very well behaved, but has dyspraxia and some social issues. This manifests in terrible handwriting and he is no good at sports and has no friends (but is completely happy in his own company). I thought a private school with smaller class sizes and more stretching curriculums would be a perfect fit but no, always excuses as to why they can’t meet his needs so maybe I should look elsewhere. I am sure there are many kids like him without EHCPs already at these schools (several of my other child’s friends have ASD or ADHD) but the minute you mention an EHCP the excuses start. So will probably be forced to stay with state despite other child going private.

@JumpingJill slight derail here but presumably you’ve considered More House? It’s a pretty special place. Specialist provision but very aspirational and for bright boys who struggle in mainstream. About half have ECHPs I believe.

Also if you have a child at prep school with EHCP looking to make the move to senior be aware the process is complicated by the fact that the LA have to approve the move. They take into account parental choice but the new school has to be named in the EHCP and it has to go to their panel to decide which school to name - the one proposed by the parents or a different school nominated by the LA, based on things like cost and ability to meet needs. This is even if you aren’t asking them to meet the fees. So an EHCP is not to be applied for lightly if you are in the private system.

We were awarded our EHCP years ago (aged 4) because he could not talk due to his dyspraxia - took till 7 for him to learn to talk with a lot of speech therapy from his wonderful then school. So it was v much needed at the time and his needs although much lesser are still sufficient to maintain it but private schools aren’t willing to consider meeting those needs.