Zero Hours Contract

[MikeRafone]

Posting here for traffic

I have a zero hours contract, this is because I took the job as a summer job to fill in last year. I work in a housekeeping capacity and they call me when they have annual leave to cover, business peaks or sickness. I love the job and the freedom it offers. I don't want or need to work every week and will let them now if I can't work due to being away or have other commitment - they also use agency staff (but because they are more expensive they alway call on me first) I get holiday pay and just ask for it when I want it to be paid up to date - so did this in December.

The law is going to change to no longer being able to have zero hours contracts

what do I do?

Can I work as "self employed one person agency staff" and just charge the 12% extra on top of my hourly rate for holiday pay YANBU

Or do I have to lose my job? YABU

But I don’t want to be.

I’m given a whole reel of dates about once a month. I generally say yes, but I want the no obligation to say no with no guilt.

It works for both parties.

I also bill for products.

@Figaroducksandcattos

Ok. It’s nothing to do with me! I’m just giving you the facts.

My scenario sounds like yours.

Im just wondering on my status.

But… of course I don’t round hourly rates up to include holiday etc as you mentioned. Off payroll/self employed, whatever, this means no holiday pay.

Thank you. That’s why I’m asking. Appreciated.

I think I fall under falsely self employed or something suchlike yes? Eg, I couldn’t send someone in my place for one of the cleans.

Only… it works for me.

I just don’t have a word for my status.

@Figaroducksandcattos

to be honest I think it’s unnecessarily onerous. We have a few special events at various times in the year and need a one off person and it’s perfect for a student etc (university town) - say 10 hours of work for 4/5 people but you can’t just pay cash, so you need to either use an agency, ask staff to do overtime they may not fancy, or put them on payroll for at most 3 events in a year.

See I work when ( today) people are on annual leave, but there are another 4/5 people also working ( hotel type housekeeping) if I turn down a shift the call an agency

But… of course I don’t round hourly rates up to include holiday etc as you mentioned. Off payroll/self employed, whatever, this means no holiday pay.

why aren’t you adding on 12% to your invoice for annual leave pay?

Business needs cleaners

Hires in a cleaning company. Tells them what areas need cleaning.

Cleaning company can refuse to work (though risk becoming the "unfavourable" company this way). Cleaning company invoice business for the required pay.

Yes. And the cleaners are paid via PAYE from the company as the company is an agency.

Or the cleaner is a bona fide self employed business cleaning for multiple clients.

OP’s scenario does not meet the criteria for self employment.

A friend is really worried about this.

She works in a care home and is on a ZHC by choice. Most of her friends and family live over 150 miles away and she likes being able to turn down weekend shifts when someone's birthday is being celebrated or she gets tickets for something at short notice. She really hates the idea of having to work to a set pattern.

I'll be interested to see how it will work when the details are published.

Having had a teenager leave school and look for their first job, I will be pleased if they get rid of zero hours. Too many jobs, especially retail take advantage of this and it is very difficult to find a job in some industries that is not zero hours. My teen had to take zero hours and doesn’t really get enough hours a week but can’t find another job.

I was looking for work recently myself and noticed that nearly all retail job was zero hours/really low hours. It leaves people in a very vulnerable position and unable to get a mortgage/rental contract. I hope that labour will improve workers rights for all, they have seriously declined in the last 13 years.

I know that zero hours may suit a small amount of people but for most it leaves them very disadvantaged.

I agree zero hours can be detrimental, thus the push for change.

for others though it’s something that fits. With a shortage of care workers and housekeeper, it’s difficult for companies to be so unscrupulous

I would love to see zero hour contracts banned. For years it’s been used as a way to remove people’s employment rights, by greedy employers who want to save money. It takes the lowest earners and robs them of job security, pension and maternity, and the ability to rent or get a mortgage. Maybe there is a minority who want zero hour contracts, but for the vast majority it’s bad. These are people who desperately need proper reliable jobs but can’t get them.

Agree but there are so many people its beneficial for. We have a small family farm and have a local retired chap on zero hours. He works when he wants and helps us cover holidays but trots off in his caravan for most of the spring and autumn. There needs to be exceptions - maybe only less than 20% of your staff to be on 0 hours and only of they agree or something. Not sure how that could work but we are quite worried about this.

although thinking about it, wont comapnies just give them 1hr per week contracts and fo exactly the same thing.

Although I’m on a zero hours contract, I get pension and holiday pay as it’s a legal requirement

The point isn't to remove 0 hour contracts.

Its to equalise the balance of power between employer and employee so you don't have the current situation where these contracts are rife with abuse - employers who expect people to be constantly available then only drip feed them a few hours a week etc.

wont comapnies just give them 1hr per week contracts and fo exactly the same thing.

Id imagine they won't legislate for 0 hours, they will legislate for controls over flexible hour contracts to give the employee more rights, e.g rights to specify days/hours they aren't free without being penalising, rights to request a fixed hour contract etc.

I think small part time contracts are even worse than zero hours, at least zero hours gives you options. Companies are employing multiple people on 16 hours rather than less people on full time, it’s not that they only need part time workers it’s that they only want to employ part time workers.
The company can require you do those 16 hours at any time it operates so how do you get a second job to have enough money to survive on, it’s not as easy as saying get another job or a full time job, you only need to look at job sites to see just how many jobs are offering part time hours but you have to be available to work between ridiculous times for instance between 5am and 11pm seven days a week.

Honeysuckle very true but I'd imagine these types of arrangements could also be targeted.

At the moment the national insurance regime makes it cheaper to employ more part time workers.

I agree with all of those saying that something needs to be done to improve employees rights. I am hoping that Labour can do something. Zero hour contracts never used to be a thing, there are ways to work if you want flexible hours like being self employed, temp contracts etc. Companies just take advantage of a system heavily weighted in favour of the employer.
I have recently changed jobs and I am working in a government funded job. I am really shocked at the conditions of the employment, absolutely awful and so different to the job I have left, eg no sick pay except SSP, have to take holiday or unpaid leave if you need a medical appointment, expected to come in earlier than when you start getting paid but on min wage etc. It’s very disappointing from a government sector job.

Zero hour contracts never used to be a thing

Of course they did. The name is relatively new, but the concept of 'getting work when it was available' and 'not having any work when it isn't' is as old as the hills.
Nowadays it is far better and far easier for people to work as and when they want to, and, for 101 different reasons if suits lots of lots of different people.

Companies just take advantage of a system

You mean SOME companies. Like with most things, you hear about them when they are going badly. Plenty of people are more than happy with a system where hours are offered out, and they can take them if they want them, but not take them if it doesn't suit that week.

This may be your experience but it is certainly not mine. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

The government has a problem. It has a growth agenda, but it’s making harder for people to work the way they want to work. And it’s making it harder for businesses to hire people. Now, we can argue the rights and wrong of that from an employee rights perspective, but what it’s not possible to do is say that any of the measures that they are talking about will drive growth because they will in fact hold it back.

The bill isn't going to make all zero hours contracts illegal. There will still be a place for them in situations like yours. Your employers will be able to carry on as before and if they believe otherwise they have been misinformed - probably by the agency they use who might be pressuring them to commit to a regular contract.

Employers who have a regular predictable need for staff will no longer be allowed to use zero hours contracts to deliberately keep their staff insecure. It will be illegal to use zero hours contracts to fill regular demand.

Lots of employers genuinely have totally unpredictable needs and some weeks will have no work available and other weeks will need lots of people. A zero hours contract is fine in these circumstances. These scenarios will not be made illegal by the new bill.

Employers who have a regular predictable need for staff will no longer be allowed to use zero hours contracts to deliberately keep their staff insecure. It will be illegal to use zero hours contracts to fill regular demand.

Emotive language with the "allowed to use zero hours contracts to deliberately keep their staff insecure".
What about the companies that use zero hours contracts because it suits their employees ?

One of my dc worked in a shop selling Outdoor equipment / Adventure Equipment. They tried to employ people who were actual mountaineers / climbers... people who would use the equipment they sold and therefore be knowledgeable about it. Most of the staff didn't want to work regular hours all year - they wanted 6 weeks to go off on some adventure. So they didn't take any hours then, and others chose to work then. My dc wanted work mostly in school holidays (being in 6th form at the time) and it balanced out nicely with the parents who wanted to work term time only. One colleague was a carer who looked after someone who had flare ups and needed support full time for a week or so, but then the person could work the other weeks. There are lots of reasons people are happy to work zero hours.

The shop has 'regular demand' and fills it with plenty of people who don't want a full, year round contract.

Another worked for one of these companies that provide staff for big evens (Horse racing / F1 / Sail events / Cricket and Football internationals etc. - They put the hours out on the group and those who want to work that day / weekend / week put their hands up. If it is exam time / you are on holiday / you aren't well / you are working at one of your other jobs, then you don't.

It isn't just students. I have friends who are retired, who are happy to pick up work when they want it. I have a friend whose partner works and odd shift pattern, and she works around that. More than one person I know who isn't well enough to work FT all year, but manages in fits and starts. Plus carers.