Zero Hours Contract

[MikeRafone]

Posting here for traffic

I have a zero hours contract, this is because I took the job as a summer job to fill in last year. I work in a housekeeping capacity and they call me when they have annual leave to cover, business peaks or sickness. I love the job and the freedom it offers. I don't want or need to work every week and will let them now if I can't work due to being away or have other commitment - they also use agency staff (but because they are more expensive they alway call on me first) I get holiday pay and just ask for it when I want it to be paid up to date - so did this in December.

The law is going to change to no longer being able to have zero hours contracts

what do I do?

Can I work as "self employed one person agency staff" and just charge the 12% extra on top of my hourly rate for holiday pay YANBU

Or do I have to lose my job? YABU

I’m in a similar position op. Whilst I do love the freedom of zhc I often feel taken advantaged of by my workplace. I previously worked permanently part time with them, applied for flexible working which was declined. I had no option but to resign and work zhc so I could work childcare out. But I still work for them but for a lesser amount and with no proper sick leave or annual leave. I’m having august off for the kids but that means no pay in September. Work gets the same experienced nurse but for less pay and no job security when applying for mortgages etc. I do feel quite angry about it at times.

You can't call give yourself a label of self employed when you're not. Employment status is far more complicated than that.

I was suggesting OP could set up as self employed and the company could bring her in as freelancer

Agree you can't call yourself self employed if you're not

But she can’t - that’s the point. The company can’t just bring her in like that ‘freelance’ - the criteria for self employment wouldn’t be met

Zero hours is one of those things that when originally brought in and used as intended was fantastic. Unfortunately it has had the absolute piss ripped out of it by some unscrupulous companies who are absolutely not using it as it was intended. Imo it would be better to hit those hard and tighten up on those companies who are not using it as intended.

I worked for an employer who used ZHC pretty reasonably. The ZHC were generally for holiday cover, emergency sickness cover and for our busiest periods. So May- September in the tourism industry. My employer generally used ZHC staff to allow full time staff to have holidays during our busy period, cover any sickness and also to put on extra food kiosks, extra guided tours, extra grounds staff to empty bins and generally tidy up, extra cafe and waiting staff, extra roaming staff who could alleviate pinch points in the attraction. Our attraction had a skeleton permanent staff year round, but there was absolutely no way they would cope with peak season where we could have at least 10 coach trips, plus on the day guests. Almost all our ZHC staff were students, retired or parents of small children. The students generally joined us from early June after their exams, they were pretty much the backbone of a lot of our peak season provision, but they didn't want to do all year. They would pick up shifts around Christmas and holidays when we had events. A lot of our ZHC retired staff liked to winter overseas and as a mainly outdoor attraction they preferred the shifts in the milder weather. They also liked to only do a couple of days a week or a few shifts a month just for a change of pace. Our parents of small children really liked the 10-2 cafe shifts as it fitted in perfectly with school hours and holiday childcare hours. They also liked the flexibility of time off for school events.

They're banning exploitative zero hour contracts
Where they work for both parties we expect they'll continue

How would hiring OP from time to time on freelance / self employed basis not be allowed? I don't see how that's different from the company commissioning via the agency

When you commission from an agency the agency is the employer and they provide workers to the client.

An agency is a business, provides services to more than one client, is an employer and meets the employment obligations for their staff.

An individual cannot set up as self employed and act as an employee which is what would happen in this case.

The various conditions that need to be met to show self employment would not be on this case as OP would be doing the job that employees do, under the control of the employer, with no say in how the work is carried out or by whom.

I’m an accountant. I could work freelance for several companies as a self employed person but I’d tell the client what I provide, provide my services done the way I do them at a time scale I agree with the client, I can pass the work on to other people if I wish.

I could not work as a self employed person for one company, on their premises appearing for all intents and purposes as a regular employee.

You could absolutely work as a freelancer for one company? So long as you are invoicing your own time and arranging all tax etc...

It depends on the circs but generally speaking if you are working as an employee under the direction of a business and are indistinguishable from an employee you are not self employed.

No, that’s not how employment law works.

https://umbrellasupermarket.co.uk/contracting-for-the-same-company/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20maximum%20time,you%20build%20up%20more%20experience.

Sounds like it is. Especially as this is for short term periods, not year long work and OP can say if she doesn't want to work (same as she can with her 0 hours contract)

You can’t just say ‘I’m a contractor’ and make it so.

OP cannot do the work she does as a self employed contractor. It doesn’t meet the criteria for self employment.

Its the difference between, say, OP and their role and an ICT contractor going into a business to implement a new software system and train the users.

It’s not about the length of time. It’s about the type of work and how OP is directed.

@Comefromaway

The number of times I’ve had this argument with people who are utterly convinced they can be self employed just because it suits them better.

Like I WANT to put someone on payroll for 2 weeks. It’s a complete pain but it’s what’s legally required.

It's a cleaning job

Most places contract in cleaners...

This is interesting for me.

So in my situation, what is my status?

I have one role, as an employee working 2 to 3 days per week.

I then have another, Airbnb cleaning. I am off payroll, I was given a choice, I don’t need another boss! I am under no obligation to accept any work. I invoice once per month. I provide products. All totally ad hoc.

As I’m earning, I know I have to register with HMRC as its over £1k per year, I need to do this by October I understand due to when I started about a year ago.

For this role, am I self employed?

I guess until the zero hours stuff is sorted by government- I’ll not know. If the government give me the choice of opting out of the ban and keeping a zero hours contract - I shall do

seems other options are not viable

Figaroducksandcattos

do you work alongside others that are employed?

I've had 2 zhc jobs and the second one is much better. The first one I had to tell them when I was available and they'd phone if work was available.

The second one I can pick and choose what/where I want to work etc. I also can get to travel all over the UK.

Ok. Talk me through how that works.

Yes, we contract cleaners at work. It’s a company run by two ladies who mostly come each week for two hours to clean our offices but sometimes they send someone else. And they choose when to come as long as it’s within our opening hours. Also we don’t employ other cleaners.

They are a bona fide cleaning company.

OP on the other hand works in housekeeping. I assume it’s something like a hotel or school or somewhere that needs a number of cleaners doing set tasks who are directed by the employer. Totally different scenario.

Alongside, no. Lone working.

If I turn a shift down, it will be carried out by someone employed.

I assume you are cleaning for a business that owns several properties therefore in the current environment I’d say you should be employed under a ZHC and they should reimburse you for cleaning products, which could be accomplished in a number of ways (eg shift allowance for products).

If I turn a shift down, it will be carried out by someone employed.

This is key - you should be employed.