To ask if anyone here has a child at a school who were directed to take them when they didn't want to?

[FishFingerSandwiches4Tea]

(I know IABU to ask here really but the SEN board is very quiet).

Child has had 'no' responses from every specialist setting consulted, including the one now being directed to take them by the LA. I like the school but obviously have concerns about how supportive they are going to be seeing as they are being forced to take my child. I'm not happy about the situation but as no-one has said yes we don't have a choice!

Has anyone been in this situation and did it work out for your child?

Hi, not quite what you're looking for but will at least bump and hopefully get you more responses.
The two situations I'm aware of are a standard school directed to take an extra eight pupils, and a standard school directed to take a deaf pupil whose parents where also deaf.

The first situation they have had to simply accept a large expense of extra desks etc, for every classroom, but more importantly extra expense regarding evacuation plans etc. The children are unaware of anything going on.

The second they had initially hoped they might get away with using subtitling for some things including parents evening. The IT manager after consulting with AV took advice from their (previously home educated SEN) staff who knew SENCOP inside out and decided the 'right' thing to do was ask the parents and student what worked best for them, and the answer came back as signers. The most expensive possible answer. The recommendation from IT/AV was the school should follow their ethos regardless of cost and accept they had to meet the expense of velcroing a rota of signers to the student, and when needed the parents. It has gone well and the student and parents are unaware there was ever any question of doing anything other than what was in the best interests of the student.

Obviously so much depends on what your Dc's needs are, and I realise everything may be different in specialist settings, but what I've seen in mainstream is once a child is the schools pupil, the school want the child to do well and 'will take the hit' to make it happen. Fingers crossed for you.

Thank you so much @Elleherd. I'm glad in both situations the children/families were unaware of the behind the scenes discussions/arrangements and it went well for the pupils involved.

I'm sure we're not the only family that have been in this position but I'm feeling quite lonely with it and hoping for some reassuring stories from anyone who's been in this situation 🙏

it won’t make any difference to the experience of your child at the school.

Really, the day to day staff will not even know the circumstances in which a child arrives at the school

Hmm... in a previous life as a teacher I was told a pupil would be joining and that the head had tried to argue against it but been overruled by the LA so I'm not sure this is generally true unfortunately

*edited to say quoted wrong post, sorry

I think it really depends why they have said no initially. Is it because they can’t meet needs? Seems unlikely as you say you like the school.
If they said no because of space/staff levels/similar concerns, which seems more likely, the LA can direct them to make a place available and in my experience this isn’t uncommon in special schools that tend to be full/over subscribed.

This is interesting - what's AV though please? An acronym I don't know already!

well then, if you are a teacher, you'll know nobody cares why the child is in front of them, just that they are.

ShutTheFuckUpCakes
Sorry, AV = audio visual, who are the staff schools who have them look to alongside IT dept, when they want special resources created in house for no extra budget.

Apologies for talking in acronyms, years of taking on the system can leave you that way.

If a teacher is told the school tried to fight a child's placement and that they don't believe the child should be in the school then it's a likely consequence that less effort will be made for that pupil is it not? As the teacher in this situation I was told 'don't worry, he won't be here for long' and he wasn't. I did my best for him in the time he was in school but that's because of my own principles. I'm not naive enough to think that every teacher would do the same, sadly.

I’m a senior leader in a very inclusive mainstream school. Because of our climate, the LA fairly regularly instructs us to take additional pupils. Honestly it is frustrating and difficult because it makes it harder to meet the needs of the children we already have but I promise you once those children are in our school, they are ours and we fight tooth & nail for them & what they need.

The whole education system is struggling right now & groaning at the seams but all the schools I know are full of people doing their absolute best for the children in them. I hope you manage to find the right place for your dc.

We ended up as home ed, but before that one head did make both mine and my child's lives untenable so I totally understand why you have qualms. I think it's gong to come down to what sort of a head/SLT the school has, the culture they encourage, and why they initially said no.

I can only say that despite bad experiences with my own DC's I know there are also are good heads who do exist who will try to argue against accepting a pupil because they are concerned about how it will affect the school, or concerns about being able to meet the need, but act decently once it becomes a done deal. I'm sorry you're in the position of worrying what kind you have.

I'm in a simar situation with my son and we had to go to a tribunal to get this far (LA conceded). I think being directed is par for the course. It's not uncommon at all and the school my son is going to had similar the year before with an additional class being added.

My LA asked for funding for two new special schools due to there being no spaces anywhere, and the D of E (under Tories) said no, so that's why we were in that situation. We have gone for a maintained school though, not sure if it is different for private. They tend to be more selective about who they want and there are issues with them in my local area, which is why we chose maintained.

It will depend on why - if it’s an LA maintained specialist, I would imagine they’ve said no because they’re full (which they all are!).
The Judge in a tribunal can direct. It’s quite unusual for management in the LA Sen team to direct an LA maintained specialist (I have worked in SEN in numerous LA’s so I know this is generally the case!).
Generally, LA managers try to continually foster good relationships with LA maintained special school heads, and directing them if they’re firm they cannot meet needs is a quick way to break that relationship.
It could be that additional spaces / funding / classrooms are being agreed behind the scenes.

I had a child in my special school class who not only wasn't going to be vastly inappropriately placed at our school, but also had an extremely difficult* parent who'd refused to accept the place offered at the other special school, that was appropriate for him.

It didn't make the slightest difference to me. Yes, it was very tricky to manage his needs, but we were very fond of him. His mum was massively difficult and irrational, but I could understand that the level of her son's disability was just too much for her mental health to manage. And the school she was offered was just too confronting for her to consider.

Whatever arguments had gone on between the LEA and the head were nothing to do with me and my team. We just gave him the best environment we could, and remained calm and empathetic with his mum. A year later she was ready to accept the original placement.

No - it’s not a likely consequence. Firstly, unless the placement is highly inappropriate, I wouldn’t expect teaching staff to be told. We have many such pupils directed to us but don’t pass this information onto teachers as it isn’t relevant. Secondly, if the school were to conspire to provide less favourable treatment to pupils who were directed, they would quickly be trouble.

Sometimes we decline placements
due to insufficient funding in plans; being an inappropriate setting or being unable to meet needs. We are way over PAN and still get directed regularly to take those who fall into the categories above. It’s just they it is in schools. It absolutely isn’t personal in the classroom.

@FishFingerSandwiches4Tea did you get your child directed via a tribunal? Are they starting in September?

My son's mainstream have been great, but it was a very, very inappropriate placement as his needs are complex and he is NV. The school he has been directed to specialises in ASD and SLD. The mainstream have still been great with him and love him, and they are sad to see him go. He liked it there too, but was segregated most of the day due to his needs. Just wanted to share that even in an inappropriate placement a child can be well loved and still be a priority. Some schools just get on with it. My son nearly got directed to a private school where staff were at loggerheads with the management. I was glad he didn't end up there.

Reading the comments above about the mum who is 'irrational' made my heart sink. People have no idea what we go through as SEN parents do they? I've had to be pushy and threaten complaints and legal action to get things done with my LA. I don't want to be like that, but the system makes you like it because they always do the bare minimum and break the law repeatedly.

We had to appeal to get our daughter into our school of choice, the appeal was awful. We got through on a technicality, when we questioned why there were 27 in one class and 26 in another hwy they couldn't accommodate her. The answer was that the classroom was smaller. The tribunal was halted while the Head was asked to measure the classrooms. Turns out they were the same size.
We were worried taking her there the next day to order uniform but everyone was absolutely lovely and supportive.
You have to hope that in a school setting they can get beyond things like that and not take it personally.

Thank you all for your replies, they are reassuring. It's not a nice situation to be in.

@DurhamDurham I can imagine how you felt after that 🥺 but I'm pleased to hear everyone was lovely with your daughter and hopes she's doing well now.

To a pp, it's the LA directing as child has been out of school all year and I've filed an appeal. It seems to me they've realised the ball has been dropped big time and they know tribunal would order it anyway.

My stepson had a situation where a primary school were told they had to take him (this was in 2004 when it was "statements " not ehcps) it was ok, they did their best with him until his mother regained custody 2 years later and he ended up in a special unit for kids who can't cope in mainstream school

The school would have said no due to either being full or because they don’t believe they can meet need either because their specialism isn’t your child’s primary need (this happens at lot where SEMH schools are asked to take children with autism as primary need. This is disastrous for these children who usually end up traumatised) or the money they are been given isn’t enough (often called banding). The school hasn’t refused because they don’t like your child.
Whichever the reason, the provision they offer will be compromised and not as good as they would want (that’s why they said no). That’s very different to them deliberately not meeting your child’s need. They said no for a reason unfortunately the LA probably has no other option either.

I'm a SENCO. The LA have directed us to take some students before, who we initially said we couldn't meet need for.

We accepted it, of course, but the primary reason for raising the objection to the placements still stood. There were some elements of Section F we simply couldn't deliver and the LA overruling us didn't change reality. I spoke to the parents to explain this and they were understanding and supportive.

Ultimately, these children became ours and we provided them with the very best we could manage. The SEND situation in education is a shitshow, but its not the fault of the parents or the children, so we would never, ever hold it against them and it didn't affect how hard we worked for them at all.

I think you are right to be concerned to some degree. I am a teacher and recently decided not to pursue fircing a provision to take my child for similar reasons. I thought that whenever there were problems the school would use this as evidence that they could not meet need. I think it depends hugely on your child's needs. What we're the school's concerns? If behaviour is an issue I would be wary as you need lots of goodwill in those situations.