(Work related) for wanting to use my AL for childcare?

[OneGlamMama]

I am a single mum.

I put in my annual leave request for the summer holidays around a month ago to my new manager who had started two weeks prior.

He told me he would look into and get back to me.
I had requested for Monday to Wednesday off each week for the five week holiday. (Ten days of holiday to use as I have Mondays off anyway)
This was denied last week.

I compromised and said I would take Monday and Tuesday off each week instead. Also denied.

I then followed up with how about I use two half days on Tuesday and Wednesday. Also denied.

I asked why and was told that we are thin on the ground, my role is too important to lose me this much in a week, that childcare wasn't a good enough reason for AL, that I could take a week off but not one day each week, etc.

I've been told to put in a flexi working request for a temporary change of five weeks!

AIBU to lose my cool with this?!

YABU - this is 5 weeks of disruption for your team, and may then restrict other people being able to take time off those weeks

If my employer sacked me when I had gone off with depression and stress (due in part to them leaving me no choice but to go off sick) they’d have a massive unfair dismissal case on their hands. Could you prove it was fake? Are you a doctor? the trade unions would love you! Enjoy paying out ££££££ to your employee.

Ask to see the policy that says summer leave isn't allowed.
Obviously some places have annual/seasonal restrictions on leave but doesn't sound like yours does so force him into allowing some leave.

Unless there is some compelling business reason, they sound really awkward. I have never had an issue taking time off in school holidays, My DH has also taken a day a week for 6 weeks, a few years running. August is often fairly slow so effectively using holiday to work work part time for a month is not a big deal for our employers.

Everyone else circumstances and experiences are irrelevant
it depends on the individual business needs
I've moved around in my company

had a short secondment to planning could literally please myself holiday wise as non of the work had a strict target date

where as when I was on the main que with customer appointments it was 3 off at anyone time no exceptions

That's shocking. I would look to leave. Worth putting your CV on indeed or listing yourself as open to work on LinkedIn to get a feel of what's out there.
What sector do you work in? The civil service is very good at flexible working arrangements. It might be worth checking the civil service jobs website.

I have a disabled child and as such I require flexible working. I've been in two civil service departments where this has been honored with no issues. Good luck x

Hi OP, I think your request is reasonable and I can understand why you are annoyed. AS to your role being too important ???? No-one is indispensable and you have given sufficient notice to arrange cover. That is what teanwork is all about.
Re application for temp flexi working arrangement, that is what you will need to do if that has what has been advised. However, I am not sure how this will make a difference to the outcome . It could just be a management ploy (forgive me if I sound cynical but I have experience of that). Good luck

Sorry why does your employer get to decide what is a good enough reason for annual leave? You can take annual leave for whatever reason you want. Saying you can't take it for childcare is discriminatory, especially if you are the only parent there.

I hope you've got that in writing OP.

I'm guessing you're not that bothered about keeping your job, then.

The OP hasn't asked for flexible working, though. She has put in an annual leave request which many employers would have to refuse. She has been advised to put in a flexible working request but it seems clear that she hasn't done it yet.

I'm doing something similar to this over the summer, but then more than one person can take AL at the same time, so no one would be prevented for taking a week off. It's first come, first served. I've never had AL refused in 17 years.

Well you have to be able to take leave

So when do they suggest ?

It wouldn't be allowed with us either. Whole weeks are taken for holiday but there is usually some flexibility for the odd day for a boiler service or training .

Fuck it, go off sick with work related stress and see how your asshole manager deals with things then!

This is such bad advice.

The "asshole" manager will no doubt deal with the OP's absence, no matter how inconvenient it might be, but the OP's professional credibility will be completely destroyed if she fakes sickness in response to a declined request for annual leave. Throwing your toys out of the pram is never a good look in a professional environment.

Some companies much prefer people to take odd days off rather than a full week as it's easier to cover them.
Monday is already her non working day and her latest request was only for two extra half days. It can't be difficult to cover that.
Also it makes no sense to say no one else will ne able to take time off as they have suggested she puts in a request for flexible working for five weeks. If they grant that she will be off during those days anyway.

If I have read this right, As a manager myself, I would prefer this option to parental leave as your annual leave would still need to be used at some point. if they are saying you are too valuable to be out of the business, adding 5 weeks of leave in addition to AL does not make sense.

It really frustrates me when I see people write “go off with stress” “get a Drs note” etc
No wonder some businesses struggle, there is such a sense of entitlement coming from some people.

Firstly, true stress is a horrible thing. I have seen competent, happy people turn into mere shells of themselves through genuine stress and have seen it lead to attempted suicide. Don’t trivialise it!

Secondly, it is never a good idea to go sick if you aren’t. Despite a pp poster confidently saying they would put in an unfair dismissal case if they got sacked for a sick note it’s not that easy! Companies have the right to manage absence and it could result in a warning which, should you genuinely be sick at later dates as well, could result in dismissal for capability. That’s not unfair dismissal!
(and yes, this can still happen for stress related issues as long as the company has made any necessary reasonable adjustments first)

Companies also have a duty of care to their employees and I have seen cases where a manager has not been given additional opportunities as the company have been concerned about their previous mental health issues and have treated it as a “reasonable adjustment” not to put more “pressure” on them.

if you genuinely think having the time off will work then you do it professionally.
Firstly, consider what their concerns are properly. Then write down exactly how it would work. Could you agree to be at the end of the phone if needed? Could you agree to a half hour zoom meeting in morning and evening? (Taking this hour off your holiday entitlement) Without knowing the nature of your work it’s difficult to help.

Then present the whole plan in writing for reconsideration. This would have been better as a temporary flexible working request as, if it works from a business view,, would have been harder for the company to say no. However, due to the timescales involved in flexible working requests you haven’t given enough notice and they can drag it out. However, if they will accept it I would probably still do it that way. This also allows them to accept it without setting a precedent for allowing part weeks booked for holiday (if that’s their policy)

Alternatively put it in as a written grievance. NOT because they’ve said no, that’s not the main argument. Your grievance would be based on the fact that they haven’t considered it fully and properly and that they haven’t looked how it would work. Your grievance would include your written plan to ensure the work was covered and they would need to answer why this wouldn’t work.

It depends on the size of the team and level of cover required. I wouldn’t authorise it for my team as it would effectively stop anybody from taking full weeks off. In a bigger team or if there wasn’t a minimum amount if cover needed then it wouldn’t be an issue.

My employer would jump at the chance of this. It is quiet over the summer so the best time to take leave and wouldn't be disruptive to the business as I'd be around each week. Can you ask them what would be acceptable?

Everyone has the same amount of annual leave so really it's not unreasonable to take it in whichever pattern you want whenever you want as long as their is sufficient cover.
So cant see the issue with taking 2days each week for 5 weeks as opposed to a solid block of 2 weeks. It's the same amount of leave.
I my work place this wouldn't be that uncommon but I think some managers may frown on it.
Sounds like a new manager thing, as in worried about workload /impact

Totally agree with this ! Also, I'm sure people who don't get paid sick leave get sick certificates for work related stress (separate issue)

Also possibly disability and sex discrimination added to the claim as well.

That’s to be taken in week-long blocks with dates agreed with the employer.

It is discrimination against parents to say childcare isn’t a good enough reason for AL.

being a parent is not a protected characteristic.