Lifetime driving bans?

[LovelyBitOfHam]

How would people feel about harsher driving bans alongside sentencing for drivers who aren’t safe?

After the dreadful news this week of the sentencing of the drunk driver who killed two at 141mph, I read he had been banned for around 20 years, which came as a surprise as it seemed like a long time.

Equally, Im also surprised when people who’ve caused accidents, injuries and death due to driving without care and attention or under the influence are given menial bans, like 12 months.

I know many are reliant on cars (and I’m from an area with poor public transport provision) but I have always considered driving to be a privilege and never a right.

Personally, I think automatic lengthy bans (as in 5 years or more) should be in place for any and all drink or drug drivers and the most egregious cases should lose the right to drive forever.

Too many lives are lost and changed by motorists and nothing seems to be done about it.

For what it’s worth I can (but don’t) drive.

I suppose the problem would be, if you have a lifetime ban then what happens next if you continue to drive.

Prison?

Indeed. One of our favourite programmes is Police Interceptors - it's quite shocking how many people the police stop who are already banned and who have no licence, insurance, etc.

Indeed. One of our favourite programmes is Police Interceptors - it's quite shocking how many people the police stop who are already banned and who have no licence, insurance, etc.

They just don't give a shit do they.

Trouble is, nothing much happens when they get to court.

My ex-colleague’s son was murdered by a driver with a lifetime driving ban. He’d already had 3 hit and runs previously but he got a slap on the wrist (12 mth suspended sentence). Three years later he hit and killed a toddler and that’s when he was put away.

Harsher sentences are shown not to act as deterrents. Plenty of people now are imprisoned for driving offences, it does nothing.

Short term prison sentences e.g under 5 years, generally send people into more of a criminal lifestyle too.

It's also difficult to police.

Absolutely. Driving is a privilege not a right. People flouting a ban should get a lengthy custodial sentence. Sick of road collisions not being taken seriously. I was in an absolutely horrific one last year and lost someone. It makes me so fucking angry that the sentencing in this country is so poor.

Driving offences aren't taken seriously enough.

people change. My daughters been named for approx 3 years for drinking, she hit a parked car, so thank god no one was hurt. She is now 16 months sober and got her licence back. The whole experience was awful for her. A night in police cells. Court appearance. Unable to see her daughter easily. The risk of her drink driving again is slim. She’s only late 30’s so if she was banned for life then the next 50 years would be tainted which seems excessive.

I don't think driving bans are fit for purpose. So many people, especially young men, are already driving without even having passed a test but, if caught, get a suspended sentence and a driving ban, even though they're already driving illegally..

Fines don't really work either as a lot of offenders are on low wages or benefits and only have to pay back a £ or so a week. The other side of the coin is the higher-earning, middle-aged offender in a BMW etc who can afford a good lawyer, plays the "pillar of the community" card and gets a fine they can easily afford to pay and dodges a ban because they "need" to drive for work etc.

As we know, prisons are so full to bursting that they're letting cons out early so unless death or serious injury has occurred, that's not currently the answer either.

I honestly think that more use should be made of community sentencing. - Obviously not for examples like the horrific one in the OP. He chose to drink and drive, at over (edited almost to over) double the speed limit, while filming himself on his phone. Oh, and then lie and try to say he'd let a hitch-hiker drive his car (as you do). I think he should have got more.- but if more offenders were made to confront the consequences of their actions e.g. watching unedited footage from emergency services, having to help survivors of RTCs, helping to educate teenagers as to the dangers of driving etc, that may have more effect.

I couldn't really give a shit if her life was tainted by her own actions. She's incredibly fortunate she hit a parked car and not a person, that's got nothing to do with her skill as a driver it's just sheer luck. Actions have consequences, if you don't want to get banned from driving then don't fucking drink drive. How would you feel if your daughter had been killed by a drink driver?

@Pinkrinse

I agree to an extent, a relative of mine was caught drink driving, they weren't in a collision but, ironically had taken a different road home as there had already been a fatal RTC on their normal route and they got pulled over (on the alternate route) for a faulty brake light. PC smelt alcohol and breathalysed them. Twelve month ban and lost their job but several years down the line they have turned it round.

However, I sometimes think, if they had left the pub 30 mins earlier, they could have caused that fatal RTC and the driver who was responsible for that could still be driving with the potential to cause another fatal RTC..

A driving ban is only as good as the enforcement. Police numbers have been cut to the bone, so it is very difficult to actually stop somebody who is determined to drive, short of imprisonment, and we all know the prisons are full. I'm sure there are many thousands of people who drive all the time without a licence; we only hear about the ones who got caught. Haven't one or three car-mad celebrities been caught multiple times, but they can afford the best lawyers to "get them off"? And even if they were banned, they would probably keep driving anyway, and play the "don't you know who I am?" card. If you are done for drink driving, it's very difficult to drive again officially: as well as the ban itself, insurance becomes extremely expensive, so lots of drink drivers then don't bother with a licence or insurance. There's also this choice (although the figures may be different now): Cost of insurance: £700 or more. Fine for driving without insurance: £200. Tough decision for the one who thinks he won't be caught.

I remember an exercise some years ago in which some teenagers who had been done for "joyriding" were taken to the scene of an accident, got involved in the aftermath, and were then told that it was staged.

I used to be a driving instructor in London, I had lots of pupils who already had many hours of illegal experience; they got caught, and decided to "go straight" and get a licence; this was when driving licences had the paper counterpart showing endorsements and convictions. The irony is that the "illegal drivers" were often the easiest pupils to teach. Some of my colleagues mentioned seeing prison sentences on licences. I only once saw on a licence "disqualified until extended test passed", and that was a teenager. I didn't ask him about it though.

I think they should have a chip implanted that means any car they get in wont start.
Obvs the car industry would lobby against it as they'd lose out on car sales.

But they’re probably pointless, as the type of person who would do something to get a ban in the first place is also likely to be the type of person who would totally ignore it and drive anyway.

Without consequences, apparently - see Katie Price.

It's a tough nut to crack. On the one hand, there are people who should never be allowed within spitting distance of a vehicle. And on the other hand, there are people who hit rock bottom and make blindingly stupid choices.

But back to the bare basics; driving is the single most liberating thing a human being can do. Independence, joy of driving (diminishing due to higher costs, traffic calming, speed traps and falling standards) and the spontaneity of being able to jump in the car and go somewhere. All of that can be ripped away from you at the touch of a button as your licence is revoked and your car crushed. Do you really want the State to have that much control?

There needs be balance. There needs to be a way to assess whether or not someone is a total lost cause or deserves another chance.

My suggestion might be.......

1. Instead of bans licences should be cancelled and after serving their ban you would then have to take an extended retest and have an interview with a probation officer or similar to determine if you are 'fit and proper' to hold a licence
2. You would also have to have a clean criminal record during the period of the ban and the Police and Local Authority should have the right of objection.
3. If you get a life ban rather as with life prison sentences after (say) 10 years it should be possible to apply to The Parole Board(or similar) to demonstrate that you are now suitable to hold a licence.
4. Driving while disqualified needs to be treated in the same was as breaching an injunction, ie straight to the cells and up in front of a judge on the next avalible working day

Crush the car every time: they'll soon run out of cars to drive

Just dont take the driver out before you do it...........

I think in this particular case the man should never, ever be let out of prison let alone be let back in to a car. He murdered an innocent baby and an innocent young woman in cold blood and then tried to lie about it to the police. I read the statement the mother of the baby made to the judge - it was so heartbreaking and her little boy was gorgeous it just isn't fair that this monster gets to live but her poor child doesn't.

They definitely need to be harsher. Plus, any driving ban needs to start when they leave prison. I’m sick of reading that someone’s been jailed for 10 years for killing someone with a 6 year driving ban 🙄 What’s the point in that?? They wouldn’t be driving in prison anyway!!

Agree with this, it's bollocks isn't it?!

Lifetime driving bans are definitely the way forward. I don't care if repeat offenders end up in jail. Serves them right.

Harsher sentences are shown not to act as deterrents. Plenty of people now are imprisoned for driving offences, it does nothing

Well it keeps the rest of us safer while they're in prison and I wouldn't call that "nothing"

Obviously offenders won't be imprisoned for the rest of their lives though, so maybe seizing and crushing the vehicles they're using might be more effective?

in general people serve less than 50% of their sentence and under new Labour guidelines they would only serve 40% so getting out after serving 4 years of a 10 year sentence would make a 6 year driving ban effective for 2 years at least.

It's one thing if you've been down the pub all night and get in a car
It's another when you genuinely didn't realise you were over the limit because you had been drinking the night before.
Some of the calculations I have seen people do on next day driving is shocking. But do they deserve a lifetime ban?

Another non custodial option for driving after a lifetime ban, alongside car crushing, would be to take away a passport for a very long time. Deny such people their fortnight in the sun for say at least ten years would hurt many people.