To think woman don't have it better now?

[firstbabyworries]

Had a debate last night after watching a programme about how in history woman have been treated hideously. Husband said it's much better now. I largely disagreed.
The percentage of rape convictions is frightening. If it gets to court, (which it hardly ever does because who would believe you anyone, did you lead him on, where revealing clothing) it's just your word against his, who would ever believe a woman eh.
The rights to abortion in the US have changed, woman have no autonomy over their own body.
Donald bloody Trump! Need I say more?!

There are just tons and tons of ways life is so much harder for woman. Maybe because it's spoken about more now people think it's better. Maybe it is, maybe my judgement is clouded, the first two points are incredibly close to my heart so I might be talking rubbish!

No. Not in most of the West. We have much more freedom now. Give us a period in time you thought things were better?

1990’s?

YABVU

Morning OP. I am 46 and, from my point of view, I think prospects and general opportunities and fairness has massively improved for women.
But the issues you mention are major. Particularly the rape conviction rate that the UK has currently. There is a lot of work to do on this.

Well its not perfect no but today you can vote which many women in history have not been able to do. In Tudor england a female servant could be routinely raped and abused and could not speak out or lose their jobs. Other women were married to those they hardly knew for money. This is the way women have been treated over the centuries this is a tiny snapshot. So yes I feel luckier than them, i have more power than they did and more opportunity.

It is much better than historically.
Women who married had no right to leave and if divorced could loose their children. Until recently rape in marriage wasn't recognised.
And it wasn't that long ago that it was very easy for "awkward" women to be locked up in mental institutions.

It's better in a lot of ways but there's still a long long way to go.

1990s is very recent. I think life probably felt a bit more hopeful for most people then. Men and women.
OK since the 90s things that have probably improved are information technology allowing WFH and flexibility which particularly suits women. More openness about mental health. Less ‘slut shaming’. More openness about relationships and knowledge of coercive control.

It's much better for woman now than its ever been but there's still a long long way to go.

To the poster upthread who suggested the 90s were better for women - I was a teen back then and NO, it's much better now than it was then.

Rape will never be a crime with much of a conviction rate sadly, one persons claim vs another, without anyone else around is almost impossible to convict, without evidence. And evidence has to be collected so quickly and can still be unreliable.

But for most of history in most cultures there was no real sense of women having any bodily autonomy! There was no concept at all of rape in marriage until really recently ( my lifetime) as it was just assumed the wife’s body was available to the husband. Where rape was condemned the focus was on the woman being ‘spoiled’ as the property of the husband/father. The OT actually requires women must marry their rapist as they are ‘spoilt’ for anyone other man.

Abortion was not legal for most of history either.

Your examples actually illustrate that things ARE better.

Though I do think we have not progressed anywhere near as much as we think. Misogyny is rife. Just look at how violent, misogynistic porn has proliferated. Rape may be illegal, but it’s rife and so many men love the idea of it. Look at how readily those in positions of power have been to give away women’s single sex spaces and services. No care for what these means for women.

We’ve had law changes but actually attitudes to women haven’t changed so much, annd our new ‘rights’ are easily given away and our dignity ignored.

Well you can have your own money and keep it, divorce your husband (who legally cannot beat or rape you), you may have a job once married/a mother, you may take out a mortgage and have a credit card, you will not be shunned if pregnant outside of wedlock, it is commonplace to go to university or study stem…I think it’s better.

We have it so much better than past generations of women. Rape probably happened more but it wouldn't even be reported and if it was it would not be taken seriously. Yes it's currently hard to get a conviction but at least it can get to court. It's just the nature of the charge (usually no witnesses) that makes it hard to get a conviction.

Women in the western world have so much more freedom now than they ever had previously. It's not perfect and we still largely live in a patriarchal world but we have the opportunity to challenge this now in a way that wasn't possible before. Our voices are getting louder. I wouldn't swap places with any man.

Generally I think the lot of women has improved.However for poorer and less well educated women less so.Daily just on this site alone we read of feckless men making life hard for their wives /partners.Many cannot escape very easily or it is very difficult for them to . As for Donald Trump and the Abortion laws in US frightening to say the least .I think maybe rape laws need an overhaul as you say .There are so many problems with either getting to court or a conviction as well .YADNBU !

I compare my life with that of my dm

I am university educated, she was not
I have a career still at 61. She was forced to resign when she married
I have my own home, money, pension, she did not.
I have travelled to 36 countries, experienced different cultures, she went to France in her late 60s.
I have benefitted from contraception and have chosen to have one child. She had five children and three still-borns.
I have every labour saving device, she hand washed clothes for seven of us.
I live my life free from the bullying, aggression and occasional violence of a resident man. She sadly did not.
I am free to dance in the kitchen, paint my house in sunshine colours, dress as I please, cook what I please. Am truly independent. She only achieved that when widowed.

IMO, life is infinitely better for women today. 🙂

Nonsense. Even in my 74 years on this earth I can see enormous changes that have benefitted women no end. Of course it's not perfect, but to imply that women are worse off now is just silly. Back then, there were so many hurdles . When I was first married, I had to have my husband's permission to buy a new carpet on HP, even though I was the breadwinner and he wasn't working. I couldn't get a loan or a mortgage as a single woman. I applied for the Married Teachers' Allowance, to be told that I had to have external gonads to qualify. There were no childcare facilities in the entire city, other than a creche in the church hall. For short-term care only. You want to be a working mother? We'll make it impossible unless you have family to help out. No tax breaks of any sort. When we travelled to the UK, both of us with grandFATHERS born in Devon, he was allowed to stay a year because his paternal grandfather was UK-born; I was allowed only 6 months because it was my maternal grandfather. Grandmothers didn't count. Just silly little irritating things like that that put women in their place.
My grandmother nursed horribly wounded soldiers throughout WWI, and still couldn't vote in Britain because she was not yet 30.
Oh, and sexual abuse? Our lecturers at Uni could abuse us at will because they held all the power. Being groped during a viva? During a tutorial? Get used to it. Protest and I'll fail you.
The thing that I do feel strongly about though is the women with children who are forced to work because of the awful issues around housing and living costs. There is no longer any choice, unless you have a high-earning partner. Young women are being worked till they drop...so very unfair.

OK how is it not better?

Women have more freedom, rights and protection from law than ever.

However rape/assault and murder cases are still high.

It's generally less acceptable for men to treat women like sex objects but it still happens and there is that 'can't say anything these day's' culture

Women are still having to fight harder to achieve in the work place. For less money.

Women are still doing the majority of housework/mental load/parenting but working too.

I'm 50. Things are measurably better now overall. When I was a child the 'career woman' was still an unusual & scary thing. My teenagers would not understand what I meant by the phrase. In my lifetime women needed a man to sign for things like mortgages and as someone said rape in marriage only recently recognised. But that doesn't mean its anywhere near perfect because progress is never linear. I'm really disappointed to hear about the persistent casual sexism my kids pick up. Porn & sexual exploitation aren't getting better because of digital media & global crime networks. Men will use everything at their disposal to exploit women. And I never thought we would see the day when lesbians were being told that men could be lesbians and they had to have sex with them or they were bigots. Or that women would lose their jobs for believing in biological reality. Things might be better in lots of respects but every generation reinvents misogyny & I think we have to get better at seeing it coming.

I think everyone has a fair point, there are lots of things that are better. Maybe my frustrations are that men in particular just don't seem to realise how far we STILL have to go. Maybe I just need to wind my neck in and chill out! I just remember when I was about to find out if I was having a boy or girl I was so hoping it wasn't a girl because I didn't want her to have to grow up in a world with anything I've had to deal with, which I admit is probably what's really wound me up the most.

I think things are much worse for girls in secondary school due mainly to Internet porn.

It wasn't until 1992 that forced sexual activity within marriage wasn't illegal in the UK. Essentially, a husband could rape their wife until then.

I think it is very slowly getting better, but there is long way to go.

@pollyglot - your post is fascinating, my mouth dropped open.

You shouldn’t wind your neck in or chill out!

You just need to frame it as we have not achieved anywhere near as much as we thought we had, and there is so much more to do. There are new assaults on us all the times。the popularity of violent pornography is terrifying. The casual removal of single sex spaces also. These things really show how women are still viewed as lesser.

I think there is more understanding of women as as ‘economic unit’ but really poor understanding or concern about male violence against women.

As a middle aged women I now really see how so many women are shafted by men in divorces ( hiding assets, being persuaded to do a DIY divorce and ripped off). And child maintenance is designed to ensure men still have a good standard of living and there are many loopholes enabling men to reduce their payments.

I think life is much better for women now than ever before, the other posters are correct in all the good things they have listed.

However, where I think it has not got better is that women do generally work now, but there is generally still the expectation they are also the primary parent, nurturer of the family, etc etc whilst providing financially too.

So the burden is that there are far more balls to juggle than ever.