Settlement figure for maternity discrimination?

[GoldieLocks09]

I’m due to take part in a ‘without prejudice’ meeting with my employer in the coming days. Ultimately my position at the company is no longer there and they have not followed recent maternity laws as they:

1. have offered me a job that is not suitable at all (lower level, much less senior)
2. told me I can apply for a more senior position (but backhandedly told me I wouldn’t get it)
3. made the decision 9 months ago when I first went off and have only just told me

and there’s a few other things but I don’t want to be too outing..

I think both myself and the company know the outcome and that there will be a settlement. My question is how much should I push for?

I earn approx £120k OTE (bonus & basic salary), have already lined up childcare and paid a 6 month deposit, missed out on my annual bonus last year because they didn’t pay me it as I was on maternity leave, been there 6.5yrs and have a 3 month notice period. AIBU to go for a full years salary plus bonus and my notice period?

Can anyone share examples of what they’ve received as a settlement (or a friend of a friend, etc?) or how I’d go about calculating it. I’m aware I could get more taking them to a tribunal but for ease & the ability to get passed this awful period I’d rather just settle but for as much as I can?

This is bad advice. You need to know what the offer is not hide away from it.

If it’s rubbish and you need to go nuclear via a solicitor that might be the time to get signed off with Work Related Stress but not before.

Yes they will try and pug you under time pressure but who cares as it’s meaningless as if the offer is good why draw it out? If the offer is bad who cares about the deadline anyway? The OP can’t sign a Settlement Agreement there and then as she needs to take legal advice on it.

Even if OP says “yes please I would love to accept your offer and I’m thrilled with it” and then goes and takes advice from a solicitor and realises it pants she isn’t bound to still accept the offer. Nothing is binding until it is signed by all parties, including OP’s solicitor.

They should pay or make a contribution to your legal fees. You need an employment lawyer. There is a ‘formula’ to follow and you want to make sure you’re seeking compensation for every area possible.

Agree with the consensus - don't agree to anything, and get legal advice. It isn't optional here.

You maybe able to take someone else into the meeting with you to make notes etc but don't be forced into a meeting unprepared.
Minute everything, if anything is said on the phone follow up with an email to confirm what was said.
Do not agree to anything without proper legal support.
Although your home insurance has lapsed, it might be worth contacting them to see if they would support you, as you were paying home insurance at the time the decision was made, even if you have only just been told!
Good luck and be prepared to go to tribunal if you need and let them know that!

Have a go. I think you are likely to have to compromise. Employment tribunals cap payments at c.£115K unless there is clear evidence that you were treated unfairly because of a protected characteristic, and not just treated unfairly. With paternity leave being extended, that is harder to prove. It’s also a problem with the Equalities Act as arguably all discrimination should be treated the same way, even if the exact reason for it can’t be proved.

I was demoted discriminately by my previous employer - in the end I got about a 150% of my salary. They settled before it went to tribunal - I raised a case with ACAS and put in a GDPR request. They were supposed to reply to the GDPR within 30 days I think but didn't - they obviously didn't want me to see the results. I did engage a solicitor which cost around £2k which was well worth it

It was 100% not company culture driving this figure. They originally offered me a month's salary - but I got a very good lawyer who fought my corner. I also had direct evidence of maternity discrimination

Get a lawyer OP - it'll save you money in this case

Get an employment lawyer quickly. Refuse to engage until you have representation. I can recommended an excellent lawyer so PM me. The co will end up paying their fees so don't worry about that.

I'd go big guns on this. Ask for a lot and negotiate back from that.

The fact that they are trying to rush you is a them problem. Don't let them pressure you.

Stay strong. Get legal advice quickly.

In a Without Prejudice meeting they want to see where you are on this. You can go to it and listen, you don't need a lawyer but you should be at least working on getting one at this stage. Try getting some advice beforehand.

Tell them that whatever is discussed you will need to take it away and consider it. At the meeting you should put a few of your cards on the table, although you are mainly in listening mode, stress to them how serious you are about taking legal action or want to be reinstated etc, basically put a bit of fear into them that you won't be taking it lying down. But (if this is the case) also make it clear that you will work with them on making a deal to avoid tribunal.

Don't be pressured into agreeing anything on the day. You know this, but to them this is a business transaction - to you it's deeply personal so look after yourself in there.

You do need to start the ball rolling and lodge this officially with ACAS (with the intention of lodging an ET1), it will give you a bit of breathing space and will indicate to your employer that you mean business.

If you think you can prove discrimination then go for what you suggest as a start, you can always come down. Just remember, you likely can't claim the bonus via tribunal if it was due 3 months ago or more.

Would be great to know what you do settle for.

Everything @duh has said.
@GoldieLocks09 please ignore most of everything else that has been said.

Legal fees are paid in relation to executing a settlement agreement not in relation to your claim or general employment advice. A good solicitor will be £500 plus VAT min per hour.

If redundancy is genuine and the role you occupied no longer exists, they can make a pg woman or someone on mat redundant.

There is no obligation to provide someone returning from mat their exact job back - it must be similar and on the same T&Cs.

If they have called the WP meeting, they want you gone. The key thing we don't know is the other stuff you have referred to and don't want to go into.

It is very difficult to give a view without knowing what your T&C's are and your age (and the other stuff). We know you have 6 years' service.

As they want you gone: bonus if one was payable providing you met the contractual criteria vis a vis performance.

Accrued contractual A/L

Notice period (taxable)

Nursery fee deposit - six months sounds steep - can this be negotiated vis a vis waiting lists, etc. They have no obligation to pay this.

Termination payment: providing you have had all your mat pay already, ask for 12 months' pay (only the first £30k is free from tax). Depending on the "other things" it will probably end up between 6 and 9 months.

An agreed reference.

Remember that ET judgements are public, your industry will likely know you have gone to ET regardless of whether you win or not and you will be regarded as litigious. Interviews and offers will likely be avoided.

I would advise you to settle.

You should be able to take a companion to the meeting. Not a lawyer unless they have one in the room.

Could you share the details of the firm you used to represent you please?

This is the best comment on this thread, and is accurate in pointing out where other people are incorrect. You are getting a lot of incorrect advice, mostly based on the assumption you have been discriminated against, which hasn’t actually been established. If they have offered you another position at the same pay and terms then you’ve lost the discrimination element. And that would be the bulk of any part of a claim you could bring against them unless there is proper evidence for additional discrimination you have not mentioned here.

In addition, ‘big win’ cases are highly unusual. Most cases at court are awarded a lot less than you’re even suggesting. Also, if your company is offering to pay you off (for whatever reason) and you go through early conciliation with ACAS and the company continues to try to settle in response and you refuse a ‘reasonable’ offer, the court will not look at your case favourably. What reasonable is we can’t tell you because we don’t know the details.

Hence why you need sound paid legal advice.

There has never been an employment tribunal award for £3million.

op - you need to get advice from an employment lawyer. I would say a year or two salary if you have a good case but you need specialist advice

@User2460177

The highest ET award is £4.5m in 2011.

However, I do agree that the OP needs a shit hot employment lawyer.

You are getting a lot of incorrect advice

She’s posted in AIBU. The HR people and employment lawyers tend to hang out in “work” or “legal matters”.

OP, if you are looking for representation have a look at Gillian Howard , Employment Lawyer ( I think she's on LinkedIn or search for lawyer with a handbag and you will find her).I have no idea of her fee structure, but her reputation is fearsome.

@FunZebra I agree.

For what it’s worth I have already posted on this thread a few times and I’m an employment solicitor. I have given OP sound advice, the best advice being “get a solicitor” 😄

I don’t tend to announce I’m a solicitor on such pages because I then get PM’d with questions that starts to take the piss a bit. I’m saying it now so OP doesn’t think she needs to repost anywhere else - though of course if she wants to she should do so. Also I will probably get loads of posts saying “well you can’t be a very good lawyer” when I am simply advising to be realistic. Of course OP may be the exception but this doesn’t seem particularly likely based on what she has said.

One thing OP needs to understand is that the people saying they got 150% or whatever either likely had employers who have a culture of overpaying (often financial sector), are lower paid employees (i.e 150% of a salary of £20k is far more achievable than a salary of £100k) or had an absolutely cracking discrimination or whistleblowing case where discriminatory actions had actually taken place rather than were just in contemplation. Or they may have been absolutely detested by their employer (this can go two ways of course).

OP sounds like she might well have a claim but it’s impossible to accurately ascertain based on the information provided and it sounds more like the employer wishes her gone then it has actually taken steps on an open basis (i.e not on a WP basis) to do so that she could argue are discriminatory.

Another factor is that if she doesn’t accept an offer they may:

a) dismiss her and yes she may have unfair dismissal and discrimination claims but even if she is successful, while Employment Tribunals are free, legal fees are not. And the loser does not usually pay the winners fees. Plus there’s at least a 12 month back log at the Tribunal.

b) have her return to her role. Play the long game and in 6 months time make her redundant, pay the minimum SRP and force her to work her notice. Much more difficult to argue discrimination further down the line.

OP should try and get out on the best deal possible but should be realistic. A solicitor in possession of all the facts is best placed to advise her. Hey if she does get 150% then good on her but the average package is usually:

1. Notice pay
2. Accrued and intake holiday pay
3. ex gratia settlement figure of 3 - 6 months gross pay of which the first £30k is tax free
4. an agreed reference
5. contribution to legal fees (usually between £350-£1,500 plus vat)

I have people contacting me all the time with unrealistic expectations. Occasionally you get one that is an amazing case with lots of leverage to use or create. However most of the time you don’t get those large payouts. But… if there is the potential for one a good lawyer will sniff it out.

And I will say some of the lawyers recommended on Mumsnet (generally, I’m not making comments about the ones recommended on this thread) in my opinion often represent a triumph of marketing over actual legal skills and results.

To add to @Duh ’s excellent post on realistic expectations I work in financial services where highly paid people do get large settlements. I have seen colleagues have to go through months of stress and uncertainty to get to high results.

There is a balance to be struck between the level of stress and disruption a fight to the bitter end causes and the value of being able to move on with your life.

Get a good lawyer and work out with them what your realistic satisfactory option would be. Don’t let others push you into fighting a bigger battle than you want because they think you deserve more. It maybe that £10k improvement in an offer wouldn’t be worth it if it needed an extra 6 months of stress to achieve it. Bear in mind that no settlement, no matter how generous, will fully remove the feeling that how you were treated was unfair. This is where your lawyer can help because they won’t have an emotional connection to the outcome so they can give you a more objective view on what is reasonable.

People seem annoyed that I have quoted a £3m maternity discrimination case.

My point was not that OP is likely to get anything like that amount. These awards are rare. My point that is because discrimination claims are uncapped, there is a small risk to your employer that it could cost a lot.

Employer's hate risk. And this gives you leverage when negotiating a settlement

Though obviously is OP has been offered a role with same pay/seniority, there's no discrimination there. No one here knows how strong her case is, or even if there is a case, without the details

Based on what has been provided here. You seem emotional/ RTW and baby stress/ axiety heightening this perhaps? Had 2 new mgmt returners in my wider team last yr both v anxious (woman) and angry/ controlling (man after off for 4 months).

Firstly, legally they dont need to offer you same role back. I covered a mat role last yr and substaintially changed it ie made into a data science, strategy role from BAU. Can you do what is now asked? Roles change. Job market is competitive and they have found a better person for new job

As mentioned. i have signed x3 settlement agreements from leading FS firms.

X2 of these involved union & a solicitor I paid for. Neither paid my fees. Both capped at tax free £30k. Both a 12wk clever fight (I trained as a solicitor and prepared 90%, solicitor was advce only). Both I got hol pay on top. Salaries at tje time were £100k (this one also involved sexism whistleblowing) & £38k (fired when told them I was pregnant).

X1 was a RTW after baby #2, here is the offer (£30k plus holiday). I was on £40k. Skipped put the door and statted work at another bank 2wk later.

Nobody Ive ever met has got more than £30k (I am well connected in banking). Look at tribunal records to see current cases. I have only got 2 of these figures after long clever battles. The whisteblowing one I set up people's Teams chats to agree / record items and I screenshot/ printed lots of content before they removed access.

Dont be naive

Job market awash with people. If an employer wants a job to look different and finds someone better, tough luck. Use your skills on the other role.

Trust me Im 40 and done this 3 times- vvv hard fighting, coming back, statting again, keeping reputation and relationships in tack

It's not a 'go girl' legally blonde thing. You dont sound a good case to me. No evidence you can do new role provided.

Hi all, thanks for your advice - worst timing ever but the whole household came down with a vomiting bug the last 2 days 🤪

I have now contacted a couple of solicitors and asked for references and will be checking out their reviews to then make a decision - I'm very happy to use one, and to be honest do feel a little out of my depth now that it's clear my employers are trying to intimidate me. In terms of the discrimination element there are a few things:

1. the decision was made months ago and I wasn't told because I was on maternity leave - I've been informed this is maternity discrimination and any changes to my role should have been made in writing when the decision was made.
2. I can either interview for the higher role, or take a role which they are claiming is equivalent to my current however I'm yet to receive a job spec (have been asking for it since I found out) but from what I've been told I will no longer be managing a team, won't be in the senior leadership team anymore and won't have any input to the strategy which I used to write and run with. So I've been stripped of my responsibilities as such which I think makes it fall into the not the same in terms of seniority bracket. I'd also be concerned that they're offering to pay me probably £25K more than the job is worth.. my view is that they'd do that until I was no longer protected and then find a way to get me out.
3. I mentioned there were a few other things, I won't go into detail but there was a direct attack on me for being pregnant by the MD when I told him. I don't know how much of this I can use as I didn't report it at the time.

@GoldieLocks09 good that you are getting the ball rolling in getting an employment lawyer. I know there is one on this thread so they'll have better insight but my understanding is fir employment tribunal purposes it would need to be registered within a certain period of the last date of discriminatory behaviour. I also expect they'd advise you to raise an internal grievance asap, as a tribunal would expect you to have hone through all internal processes first. Obviously not because you'd necessarily want to drag things out and through employment tribunal but you will likely need to be getting ducks in a row to enable to walk down that path in order to get full engagement from your employer and best settlement terms. Read about the process on ACAS if you haven't yet. If you PM me I'm happy to share the firm I used for an employment lawyer if it's useful. It was a normal well respected legal firm not a no-win, no-fee type thing.