To think that this can't be right

[Houseflower]

I am applying for a job as a teaching assistant and have applied for 5 or 6. I have had one interview which sounds good but is fixed term. I find out about this later this week. I have just found out that I have 2 more interviews next week that are permanent and better money.

My sister who works in a school said that if I get offered the first job and accept it this week, then go for the interviews for the others and get offered a better job then I aren't allowed to ring up to turn down the original job.

I am older and have worked in many other workplaces and this often happens. I was told it was different in teaching and it wasn't the done thing and would give me a black mark against me for future jobs.

Does this really happen? I find it hard to believe that someone would talk bad about me because I made the decision to give my family more money and more stability.

I would go to all the interviews as it might be harder for you to get a job as there are lot's of teachers going after ta jobs.

School leader here. It’s a nightmare trying to recruit learning support/teaching assistants. We’ve put the pay up to the highest band but still struggle. It’s a nightmare when people accept and pull out when you’ve spent all that time getting references and interviewing at such a busy/tricky time of year. It’s likely that the second favourite (if there even is one) will have already found a job. It is also uncommon for permanent roles (especially if you are inexperienced) as funding is often attached to pupils with SEND who may move on. Pulling out means a vulnerable pupil with SEND may not get the right support. It’s always best to be honest.

In terms of ‘black listing’, due to safeguarding safer recruitment practices, references will have already been obtained prior to interview. This means your current school (if you have one) will find out and may share that with any future employers if contacted. I would say this is unlikely though! What is more likely is that that school or other schools in their Trust if it is an academy (and recruitment is centralised) will just not offer you a role in future. We had someone pull out a few years ago then apply again and we didn’t even short list as we knew them to be unreliable.

I think your sister is being a bit overboard especially as you're a TA not a.teacher.

If they offer it to you then just accept it but make sure your start date is past when you would hear from the other roles. I presume it's not immediate start anyway AND if the jobs are in the same area the chances are the other candidates will also be in the same boat and have applied for all 3 - chances are also that you may outperform them there too.

Good luck!

We had someone pull out a few years ago then apply again and we didn’t even short list as we knew them to be unreliable.

we dont know people's details, ie names, when shortlisting. in NHS. is teaching different?

They had come to interview and been offered the job. We can’t offer a job due to safer recruitment until we have seen two references, including one from
current employer.

People withdraw from the actual interview all the time- no issue with that.

Sorry I see what you mean. Once shortlisted we need to do a timetable and contact them with timings etc so know at this stage. Our School business manager knows their names as she manages the applications.

You said there isn't a lot going in your area, bit then also said you live in a city with hundreds of schools?

Usually schools struggle to recruit TAs (I know mine does), so if you have the right skills, attributes and clear motivation for working with children, any school should snap you up.

Fixed term contracts are common as they are linked to the funding of a particular child.

This frequently happens at our school.

TA hourly pay is pretty poor. It used to suit mums working in schools but now you’re expected to be in by 8.30 and finished after 3.15, meaning you have to pay for breakfast and after school club for your own children.

There is more availability of working from home jobs to suit that group.

Good luck tomorrow OP.

Not true. We make verbal contracts every day, they are fully enforceable.

And yet you say its a nightmare to recruit, but you are effectively "blacklisting" someone because they presumably had a better offer. This must apply to lots of applicants.
Unfortunately it's difficult to be honest as an applicant, my preference would be to say I'm waiting to hear about other jobs and I'll need a few days. But companies now often phone at the last minute, expect an answer there and then. Other companies never let you know if you've not been unsuccessful, so you hang in waiting and not knowing. The only option is to accept the first job and then bail if you get a better offer.
Companies (and schools) just want everything their way. You just learn to be hard faced about it.

You could accept the fixed term job and then give back word if you get another offer, and it is unlikely that the first school would do anything about it, but it’s true that it is frowned on in the educational world and they would be justifiably cross. If you accept the job they will tell the other candidates they were unsuccessful, and if you then withdraw they will be stuck in September with children needing extra support and no-one to support them. (The other candidates might have got something else by then, or not want to be second-best.)

My advice is to be honest. If they offer you the job, tell them you now have two interviews for permanent jobs and would like to see what happens there first. They will understand, but still might demand that you say yes or no immediately. Then I’m afraid you will just have to choose.

The problem however with schools, is that being hard faced about it likely means a poor outcome for a vulnerable pupil with additional needs.

And you'd enforce this for a low paid job?
Really you wouldn't. A high flying professional maybe, but a TA no, it would cost a fortune and benefit no one.

I've mulled it over and to be honest, it's fixed term so what do they expect. It's either really fixed term in which case they aren't offering me something sustainable or it's a fixed term but might lead on to something permanent. Well maybe try and get permanent staff in the first place and you might get better staff.

TAs are often funded by children's EHCPs, and schools don't necessarily have the luxury of recruiting permanent staff if the future funding is uncertain, for example if the child in question may move to a different school at any time or move out of the area.

So employers and schools need to reform their recruitment practices.
That vulnerable pupil would be on them not me.

Whether someone would enforce it is a different question. I was replying to a post that said categorically that they cannot be enforced.

I don't see how they can blacklist you from any school other than their own without breaking GDPR.

This happens all the time in schools. There is zero recourse and there is no black mark. Especially in very underpaid and demanding TA roles. Perhaps that school may be hesitant in future, but I know so many schools that are desperate for staff that they have put up with stuff like this from same people over and over. Ignore your sister and posters on here who say otherwise.

They won’t be making the job fixed term just for fun. Either it’s to work with a child who won’t be at the school for long, or they don’t know if they’ll be able to afford the post in the future.

You need to think about yourself here, and your job security. A school is only just another employer. You do your job, you get paid, you don't owe them any more loyalty than that, especially if it would affect your life outside of work. Also, blacklisting is illegal and very unethical (not only from a GDPR perspective!), so would be shocked to find schools would go as far as this.

What a ridiculous comment. The job is literally supporting vulnerable children with SEND. Do you think schools have funding to randomly employ surplus staff just in case someone who has accepted a role pulls out? I can assure you schools are in the midst of the biggest funding crisis ever seen.

Sorry don't wish to derail thread but I am confused about this, if applications are anonymous and they weren't shortlisted how would you know they had applied a second time?

Other people will also have interviewed for the job. If OP turns it down they just move it the next best interviewee.

People accept and then have to decline jobs for many reasons. No offense @Houseflower but you are not vital to the first school 😉. If you accept and then turn down the job the education system won't crumble without you, despite what others might think.

Accept the job.
You may not get offered it.
You may not get offered the others.
Deal with what is in front of you at the time without looking to future potential hypotheticals.

There are different scenarios that might happen.

It might be that the people shortlisting (who also interview) using the anonymous applications recognise the potential candidate’s employment history and identify this as the person that pulled out previously.

Or, they could shortlist anonymously, liaise with the business manger about who they are inviting and at this stage are alerted to the names and remember that person.

'@combinationpadlock
if you accept the first job you have entered a contract, and if you then take another job you have breached your contract, which can be actionable. And they might or might not.'

Nonsense.

If the school makes an offer it will first be subject to references and other checks anyway and nothing is binding until the OP has signed a written contract.

Back to you OP: you have to do what's best for you. If they offer you the job tell them you would first like to see a written confirmation of a job offer highlighting the conditions, pay and so on because you can formally accept.

In the meantime continue to interview for permanent roles.