To not understand what they expect me to do?

[bloodypublicservice]

I was called up for jury service starting in less than two weeks from now. I work Saturdays only as I otherwise do all of the childcare whilst my partner works full time. Originally I stated I was available as my MIL was going to have our daughter, however MIL has experienced a significant and unexpected health issue resulting in being hospitalised for the foreseeable. I've contacted the relevant department to have received a response stating that my request to be excused from this call for service has been refused and that I must still attend at the stated day/time. It mentions appealing but that a hearing is likely to be called, and given the start date is so soon, it's realistically not going to be resolved before starting.

WIBU to show up on my start date with my child and ask what else they expected me to do? We have no other local family and no provision for external childcare.

I’m with you, OP. If I’d been called up when I was a SAHM, I’d have been in the same boat—no childcare spot booked in (SAHM), parents abroad, unhelpful MIL (who lives hours away anyway), DH travelling for work every week, and all of his annual leave booked in for holidays which have been paid for.🤷‍♀️

it really sounds like you haven’t genuinely tried to find an alternative in case the deferral doesn’t happen. Not once have you said that your husband has even spoken to his work about it, it’s all ‘there’s no way they’d let him’ not ‘they’ve said absolutely not’. You haven’t said that you’ve mentioned it to your parents who might actually be happy to see their grandchild for an extra day or two. You’ve said how impossible it would be to find childcare but nowhere have you said you’ve made actual tentative enquiries. I can understand not wanting to go from nothing to 8 hours a day for two weeks but why can’t you at least ask if they could do a day or two to limit the time your husband would need off work? If he can have three 3 emergency days then that covers a full week straight away. Or see about just mornings or afternoons so your husband could ask about working part time for the two weeks and not have to be fully off work?

I can’t see how they won’t defer it, given your circumstances, but you need to actually properly explore the options incase they don’t.

She doesn't "have to do it". They're not going to rip a toddler out of her arms and drag her kicking and screaming into the court. Worst case scenario is a £1000 fine, which many people might decide is cheaper than the alternatives.

If her dh doesn't work, he doesn't get paid, they choose between bills or food.

Her parents work ft and live miles away so it's not a question of ooo just come see your grandkid for an extra couple of days, is it?

You wouldn't dump your child on a stranger for 2 weeks just to do jury service so why should the OP? Nurseries cost a fortune, the one I used was around £76 a day. Jury service only pays out £65 per day so why should the OP be out of pocket to do jury service?

Anyway, she sorted childcare, it's fallen through due to MILs ill health, shit happens!

The court will have other extra people, they always do.

No one should have to do jury service at a cost to their household income.

You sound like a jobsworth.

Of course I’m not advocating her leaving her child for 2 weeks, I’ve said that. One day a week is completely fine though. £11 out of pocket for one day is hardly ideal but come on, if that’s the option for one or two days then that’s the option. Husband has 3 days guaranteed so that’s already almost a full week sorted. We don’t even know for a fact that his work won’t sort something out, they’ve not even asked! 100 miles also isn’t an insurmountable distance to see your grandchild for a one off, again, she hasn’t even asked how they’d feel about helping in this quite probably once in a lifetime circumstance that she’s legally obligated to do.

I’m just being realistic. IF (in big capitals) they don’t defer it, then how on earth is she going to afford the £1000 fine if she can’t afford £11 for a single day?

Why is this all falling to OP anyway? She’s not the only parent and she has no choice in the matter. The dad should be asking work and figuring out what he is going to do with his child whilst mum is doing jury service.

Lol where on earth are you finding a nursery for 2 days! You're on another planet.

Of course, it's not just on the OP but youve implied it is by saying she's not tried hard enough. You have some very rose tinted view of life, it's just not that easy, it may be for you.

And nursery for just 2 days? It doesn't happen, there's a joining fee, payments upfront, settling in sessions. You can't just dump your child for jury service and you shouldn't be expected to.

You don't know that the grandparents are available, what if they already booked all their time off with paid for holidays?

Just flat out tell them you are deferring because you have no childcare. There's been thousands of complaints all over the country about good childcare being impossible to come by at short notice, if the courts don't know that they have their heads in the sand. I have never been called for jury service, but I'd have to be excused on grounds of disability if I was, and they would just have to deal with it.

OP asked to defer on the 5th July.
Initially she asked to be excused, which was rejected.

Why are people thinking it's only 2 weeks? I sat on a jury 8 years ago and by the Thursday of the 3rd week the judge had had enough, stopped the trial and told the prosecution to come back when they were better prepared. There was a trial against the NHS in a different court room that went on for a further week after I had finished. I was with my ex at the time, he was lazy and would do anything to get out of work so childcare for me wasn't an issue, not everyone is that fortunate.

YABU and ridiculous for suggesting to leave your child with a neighbour while doing jury service. Firstly, the majority of people are on smile and wave terms with their neighbours. And even if your neighbour is an acquaintance ,do you think you can just leave your child with them all day for possibly weeks on end?

It’s clear that you’ve never been called for jury service because if you had, you would realise that it’s a legally binding commitment that you can’t just get out of by ‘flat out telling them’ anything. OP will have to ask the summoning officer for a deferral and give an acceptable reason - in her case, because it was too short notice for her to arrange child care.

And if you think disability is a reason to be excused, think again. I have a substantial permanent disability and requested a deferral at the time l was called because l was receiving treatment. I was called again later because disability in itself is not a reason to be excused jury service permanently - there has to be some aspect of the disability or health condition which would make it unreasonably difficult to serve. So there’s no possibility that ‘they would just have to deal with it’ because you would have to justify exemption and provide medical evidence in the form of a doctors’ note . And to be honest, l think that’s as it should be. Disabled people have fought long and hard for the right to participate in all aspects of society, and with those rights come civic responsibilities. A disability shouldn’t automatically be a get out of jail free card to avoid those responsibilities if disabled people rightly expect to participate on equal terms with everyone else.

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I'm sorry you got quite a bit of flack. We're in the same position as you- both sets of parents still work full time. We are both self employed, so any time off means no money coming into the house. This often means no holidays as we can't afford the time off. We also have 3 dogs and my husband works hours away, so dog care falls entirely to me too. I was called up when my husband was due an operation that had a 6 week recovery and we were due to be moving house, son was doing SATs and it was just a lot going on emotionally and financially. I contacted the courts and asked to be excused. Thankfully they allowed. We're not back on our feet after Covid lockdowns stopped me working for nearly 2 years (I go in people's houses for my job, but wasn't on the government list of people allowed to enter other people's houses!) I get they need a jury to uphold the law, but many of us need to work or be with our kids. We're not sat on piles of money twiddling our thumbs with free time to kill. I hope you get it sorted.

Everyone repeating that it is "legally binding" etc, you do realise they cannot and will not force anyone to participate. They may or may not issue a fine. That's it. I would break even after 6 days of childcare or 4 days of DH taking unpaid leave, so I'd possibly chance a fine at the moment.

Exactly. If my neighbour approaches me, asking me to have their toddler full time for an indefinite amount of weeks, my answer is no.

Exactly!! Can you imagine that thread!

"my neighbour has me to look after her child for the foreseeable future because she has jury service? Aibu to say no?"

The rest of mumsnet "absolutely not!! What a CF, God, how ridiculous, I don't even look at my neighbours and I dive for cover if they even look like they'll talk to me!!"

You can't just dump your child for jury service and you shouldn't be expected to.

Exactly. People keep asking OP whether she‘s tried to find a nursery for her child, but the point is she shouldn’t have to.
Her child is 14 months old and so far has only ever been looked after by family members.
Dropping them at whatever nursery might be available at short notice, without a settling in period will be most likely quite upsetting for them.

With so many people required to work to cover high housing and cost of living expenses, we absolutely need jury reform. It should be voluntary, or properly covering people's expenses. In your shoes, OP, I'd be tempted to contact your MP.

Honestly in her shoes if I was fined a £1000 I'd refuse to pay and let them take me to court, where at least I could present evidence to the judge that they'd put me in an impossible position. Frankly we need more people to do this, the whole situation is ridiculous. Times have changed, and the jury service needs to change. (And I say that as someone who did it, and loved it, but was in the extremely fortunate position of it having little impact on my materially or financially.)

You are not supposed to suffer financial hardship. Your employer must release you for jury service, you should not lose income doing it.

Employers are not obliged to pay you for jury service and the expenses paid come nowhere near covering costs if you have to find childcare and your employer won’t give paid time off.

Nope. The may not force you to participate if you have a valid reason not to but if you fail to appear without prior notice, the court can order the police to attend to bring you. Although I can’t imagine that they would do this in OP’s circumstances because she has a perfectly good reason for not attending - the notice given wasn’t enough to arrange suitable child care. All she has to do is ask the summoning officer for a deferral and ask that she be given more notice next time.

What I don't get on here is that there is no understanding that jury service is both an obligation/duty and a democratic right, which ensures fair trial by one's peers i.e. people by and large like the defendant.