To reduce contact after dog bit a child

[SerendipitySunshine]

I've become friends with the mum of one of the kids in DC's class. Kids (primary age) are friends too. They live very close so often pop in and out of each other's houses, and it's great. We have loads of activities planned together over the summer holidays.
Yesterday I saw their elderly lap dog snap and bite another child. Admittedly, this child was teasing it, but it bit without warning. It has growled at children before. They love the dog, and are minimising what happened.
Now I feel unhappy with my child going to their house unsupervised (by me), as the dog is always around. WIBU to cancel activities at their house?

If the dog was being teased, that’s not the dogs fault. When you say bite what do you mean? Was the skin broken or was it a warning nip? What breed is it?

Ask the dog is kept in another room whilst you’re there. It’s elderly and needs space. And educate your child on leaving dog alone.

Good ideas, thank you. Yes, I have had the chat about giving the dog space. The difficulty is that it is territorial about areas of the house and growls if the children go near.

It's a little lapdog thing, I don't know what breed, and the bite went through clothes and pierced skin, but not more than that.

If the dog is territorial and it broke the skin it needs to be in another room at all times. Serious injury seems unlikely with a small dog, but it’s not worth the risk.

Alternatively you meet at your house or go elsewhere.

I hope they have had the dog seen by a vet. That behaviour in elderly dogs is often a sign they are in pain and something is wrong.

That aside, I would say that you've noticed having kids around the dog isn't a good fit at the moment and you'd be happier to do the hosting at your house. Nobody could take offence to that!

I wouldn't be happy with the level of supervision for either a child or the poor dog in that scenario.

If the dog is elderly, maybe it cannot see so well, is in pain etc. It should be left alone and not tormented. The family need to supervise and intervene well before either the dog or child is at risk.

I'd be tempted to reduce contact at their home on that basis, as clearly they aren't keeping a sufficient eye on things.

If the dog was being teased then it was within its rights to snap, maybe the kid will think twice next time.

i wouldn’t send my kids there as the parents obviously aren’t supervising either dog or kids. Don’t technically blame and elderly dog that’s being teased for snapping but all kids and dogs should be supervised.

Poor dog.

The dog was being teased so isn’t at fault. However I wouldn’t be sending my children to be supervised by those parents if they allow kids to tease the dog and don’t teach them to be kind. A growl is a warning and also fair. Poor dog.

Kids need to learn not to tease dogs. The dog poses zero risk to any kid who leaves the poor thing alone.

Also, lapdog or not, if that dog was aggressive it would have done a lot more than snapped. Even a small dog could do more than just break the skin, if it was actually vicious. The snap was warning the child off in the same way it would warn off an annoying puppy.

I absolutely would not allow my child back there.

It’s not the dog’s fault, but it is the adult’s fault for not supervising and intervening. Therefore that adult is not suitable for child/dog supervision.

So the child teases the dog, over and over, dog snaps, because you know - its fucking annoying and its a dog, snaps and bites the child, but you think you need to reduce contact because the dog was at fault? Children need to learn not to do certain behaviours. I say this as a dog owner. If you are afraid that your kids might also tease the dog - then dont send them unsupervised. Where are the owners of this dog anyway?

I wouldn’t want to send my child due to the owner not taking this seriously. Children and dogs can be unpredictable and a dog with a bite history needs absolute supervision. If that isn’t guaranteed then my child would be kept safe by me which means not going there alone.

The owner didn't have much chance to stop the dog. It happened in seconds. A child they didn't know ran up making a sudden loud noise at the dog, dog jumped up and bit. No warning. We were sitting outside a cafe and they didn't see the child coming. I've seen it growl before at other children in their house, but not seen it bite.
I would ask for it to go in another room, but this is tricky. The owners always have it with them as it cries and barks if left behind a closed door. They have had it for many years, before their child was born, and is treated like their baby.

If you teach you child not to tease or startle dog then I see no reason to stop going there.

I was in two minds, even as a dog owner, until I read the update! Make sure your DS knows how to behave around an elderly dog (never approach from behind, while they are sleeping or eating etc, never startle it the way that little shit did) and to look out for signs of the dog getting uncomfortable. These include moving away, licking lips, ears going back, eye rolling. This is the time to leave the dog in peace. Next comes the warning stage, curling a lip, growling, snapping without making contact. If your DS behaves appropriately then the dog will be fine.

If I saw a dog break the skin of a child, I’d be really tempted to report it to police, especially if you know the dogs boundaries are constantly being pushed and it’s not kept away around children.

dogs are normally more reserved around kids for the same reason that humans are - they understand kids have more challenging behaviours like dogs understand puppies nip more etc.

if the dog is grumpy, guarding, snapping - it indicates it’s probably in pain and stress. Poor thing.

i wouldn’t send my child round if I thought they would be unable to keep clear of it.

Oops! Didn’t read the update 🙈

From your update I don’t think this is the child’s fault. Children can be noisy and unpredictable. If the dog can’t cope with that it needs to be carefully managed and it sounds like the owners won’t do that. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect small children to behave perfectly around dogs.
Yes to teaching them not to tease and to back off when they growl but you can’t tell them not to run around or make loud noises.

The child was asking for it though. They deliberately scared an elderly and much smaller creature just for a laugh. I'd have bitten them too! If your child leaves the dog alone they're unlikely to come to harm.

A growling dog isn’t necessarily a danger in itself. A growling dog is saying ‘I’ve had enough’ and giving a warning rather than just biting.

I wouldn’t allow my children around them unsupervised but I don’t blame the dog if it was being provoked.

I think your DCs are probably safer in the kids home than on the street - my dog would have been trigger stacked to the max in the same situation and would have behaved the same way. We don't take him to pubs or cafes anymore, but he's perfectly safe in the house where things are more predictable and little shits are not allowed.

This is rather mean. You don’t know why the kid did it but children are impulsive. Could have been for no reason at all. Legally the owners are at fault regardless of the child’s behaviour.

I am not surprised their dog growls at and bites kids given they seem not to be meeting the dogs needs at all nor protecting their dog from potential threats.

I would avoid contact between your child and these people, they can't meet the dogs needs, so I don't see any reason to think they can safely meet a childs needs either.

This. Horrid child should be taught to be kinder to animals.