To report this pharmacy?

[ShallWeGoToTheFirepit]

Morning all.

I work very nearly FT in the financial services industry. I have a local pharmacy that I go to very often for my medication, only a few doors up from where I live.

I've built up quite a good relationship with the owner. A few months ago, the owner asked if I wanted to work behind the counter on an Ad-hoc basis. Doing some afternoons in the week and a Saturday, which could work for me as my hours are condensed and I'm saving to buy my first house. I am late 20s with a young DC with years of customer service experience behind me.

I said yes, and that we'd negotiate pay on my first 'taster day' as there was a queue of customers behind me.

I returned a few days later, she showed me the ropes and I was off. It was very basic shop tasks, till work. Collecting and giving out prescriptions and over the counter medicine. I could only do the OTC stuff when she was there which was fine. It was very easy, although on my feet all day and tiring. As expected.

I kept trying to ask about pay but got the impression she was putting it off. It got to 2.30 (started at 9) and I'd had no breaks, I told her I needed to get something to eat as I have medications to take with food. She knows the medications I'm on anyway as she regularly dispenses them. I was told 'go and have a sandwich and come back.'

I got back, asked about the pay again. She said £8 per hour, cash or bank transfer!!! Substantially under NMW for a start. She also said I wouldn't start being paid for a 'few more days' to 'see if I'd like the role.'

I haven't been back since. AIBU to think this is one, cheeky fuckery at its finest and 2, completely illegal? She has 2 youngsters which are likely students working there at the moment. I live in Surrey and this is a family run pharmacy.

Is it worth a report? If so, is it trading standards?

Report this to HMRC for failure to pay NMW OP. Absolutely shocking but having worked in this area for awhile I’m not surprised, there are a lot of these smaller companies who think they can get away with it by hiring people they know who they just hope/assume would never think to report it x

Not sure where to report. Trading standards doesn’t seem the right place. Unfortunately, since you don’t have anything in writing, it would be impossible to prove her offer of below minimum wage.

I do have some over WhatsApp message. But it doesn't directly state £8 but I'm wondering if HMRC or whoever would look into it would check the employees accounts and see how much they're getting paid maybe?

I know nothing about this sort of thing but it's incredibly dodgy!

They will likely look at business accounts and recorded PAYE. I assume there will be a lot to look at as they probably fiddle with figures quite a bit in other business areas too.

HMRC once they receive the report contact the employer and conduct their own review. They ask the employer to provide pay & time records and that way they can check how many hours each employee has worked in a pay period (e.g. a month) and then cross check that with the amount on their payslip to see if they are infact being paid the NMW rate. They also conduct employee interviews to get a picture of what their work is like, how they get paid, breaks etc. Definitely report them OP, you won’t be the only person they have tried this with but you could be the last! X

I've just checked the WhatsApp and I do have confirmation of the offer '£8 after you've been here a few days and see if you like it'

Very professional!

She did say that her 'youngsters' are paid cash mostly. So I guess it will be quite hard to find if HMRC went through their records.

Appalling, isn't it.

Definitely report OP. HMRC can still conduct their checks where people are paid cash because it is a legal requirement for employees to be given a payslip, regardless of whether they are paid cash or via bank.

If the employer doesn’t provide payslips and is essentially just paying them cash, off the books, then that is also illegal and HMRC will deal with that x

That's good to know, thank you! I'll report it today to HMRC.

I got quite offended when she said £8. I know we all have to start somewhere but I'm a 28yo professional. Yes, not in the pharmaceutical field of course, but still!

Can you try to get her to confirm the hourly rate and unpaid work trial in writing? WhatsApp her to confirm your shift times each week. Ask her if X shift will be your last trial shift. You might have to be sneaky and wait until you are paid. Then you could send a message to “check” the payment eg “The payment you transferred on XXX is a little less than I expected. I worked 9 - 5 on ZZZ, 8 hours in total, so I was expecting to be paid £64 but I was only paid £60.” I’m assuming lunch/breaks are unpaid so hopefully she will reply “correcting” you that you only worked 7.5 hours, inadvertently confirming the hourly rate.

If she is paying people cash in hand, they may not want to whistleblow for fear of getting into trouble themselves. It might be your word against hers without any written evidence.

You can report both the NMW violation and unpaid work trial to HMRC. Unpaid work trials aren’t illegal per se but HMRC will investigate whether it is a genuine part of the recruitment process (eg a supervised trial) or “unpaid work”. More than 1 shift would be unlikely to be considered a genuine trial.

I have done this, I've been a bit sneaky this PM and asked her to confirm hours and pay so I do have it in writing now, albeit a very unofficial and unprofessional WhatsApp!

That's terrible! Did you actually get paid?

No, I've only done 1.5 days there and haven't been paid for any of it as it's under 'training days'.. (there's really not a lot to learn as it's basic till work, everything is price labelled, and the scripts for collection are in alphabetical order in drawers and shelves.

Shes taking the piss I think!

I’m pretty sure that you have to be paid for mandatory training if it would mean that you earn less than NMW per hour when your pay is averaged out including paid hours and unpaid training hours ie employees earning NMW have to be paid NMW for mandatory training but IYSWIM?

www.acas.org.uk/getting-paid-for-mandatory-training

This is true, you have to be paid for mandatory training. You can however be asked to do an unpaid trial shift but even then there are rules and guidance, it has to be completely supervised, you cannot be acting as a member of staff in that time (so they don’t save on a staff wage that shift), and it has to be no longer than it would take for them to reasonably decide you are capable/incapable of doing the job, the guidance shows usually this should be no longer than 1 day and even then if it’s a fairly simple job (passing things over, using a till) then really a couple of hours would be sufficient, they can’t ask you to basically work 3 days for free as a “trial”

I am sorry, it does sound a bit of a shambles.

I am surprised your employer gave you permission to take up a second job, financial services can be really funny about this.

I've had various other 'side jobs' during my decade in the FS. They're absolutely fine.

There's no conflict of interest with the side jobs I have done. Of course there are other side jobs that I can't do, but till / shop work are absolutely fine.

To be honest, if the pay was right, I possibly could accept cash in hand for the add hoc hours so my employers wouldn't know anyway.

But that's not the case, and they're aware.

You work compressed hours in Financial Services. Does your employer know you are taking on extra work? Would they be ok with you doing so? I'd be extremely cautious about not telling them.

Working in FS taking cash in hand and not telling them. Massive red flags. If you worked for me and this came out you would be dismissed immediately for gross misconduct

Please also consider reporting to the Pharmaceutical Council as these actions may fall under an issue with ‘fitness to practice’. Pharmacists have to be registered and adhere to a strict code of conduct.

https://www.pharmacyregulation.org/patients-and-public/reporting-concerns

Absolutely this.

Yes, your career in the FS is not worth the risk to having a cash in hand job. On weekenend here and there is prob safe, but not on the regular. Would I report them? Probably not. But then I would also be offended at £8ph, but then I am in my late 30s. If I was in my 20s I probably wouldn't be as much.

Yes, I stated below. They're aware and I've done it many times over the years. A few others in my team do too.

'Working in FS taking cash in hand and not telling them. Massive red flags. If you worked for me and this came out you would be dismissed immediately for gross misconduct'

@HRTea @Mrsttcno1

I said below i could. Not meaning I would. But due to the pharmacies way of 'paying staff' it's something I'm guessing people do.

I've made it clear that it's NOT something I'm doing. My work are fully aware of any side jobs I've done and do. Many in the team do the same. There's no risk of me being dismissed for gross misconduct. I am not stupid..

This isn't the point of the thread at all.

But again, work are aware. I've been doing my job for many years and I am senior management.

I know what I can and can't do.

What you said is that you'd consider doing it cash in hand - which would only be for tax evasion purposes. If you work in a regulated business this is a clear indication that you would not meet FCA conduct rules - as I say if you worked for me (doing compressed hours with a second job that you weren't declaring) you would be out.

This reminds me of a pharmacy a family member worked at for decades, although not in the same area. The owners were absolutely loaded and although they paid staff (the bare minimum) they treated them like slaves and happily watched them work extra hours for free.