To find condensed hours extremely frustrating

[CliptyClo]

I am a team leader at work, my team works very closely with another. The leader of that team is quite young maybe 30, she's been a team leader for maybe 4 years or more, she got the job through an accelerated leadership program/internship type situation. A couple of years ago she went on maternity leave, she took a long one and we had two temp covers. When she came back she came back on condensed hours. She works 3 days a week 8.30 - 4.30 and 2 days 8-12. She still gets paid as much as I do. She is meant to make up anything missed in evenings but I don't think she ever does. Her condensed days are also her WFH home days and I find her near on impossible to contact in that time!
The work will get done but I never get updates (which she is great at on the other days) so I end up waiting around for her team to pass on the work to mine. In situation like this afternoon, she isn't working now, my team haven't been passed over anything from hers and her team aren't currently reporting to anyone so short of asking them all individually there is nothing I can do but wait!!

I get why condensed hours might be lovely for her but it's so frustrating to have no contact 2 afternoons a week!!

She's working part time for full time pay. I would be annoyed.

Yup, I've got a similar colleague, only she's wfh full time on condensed hours. The whole team works remotely and need to be in touch constantly with each other and the customer. But because of her condensed hours there's whole days or portions of days when she's not contactable which makes it really tricky for everyone else. The condensed hours also means that she works later in the evenings often...but I've no idea how productive she can be because the work is very collaborative so it's hard to complete anything flying solo.

I think the whole idea of allowing people to pick their hours isn't always realistic in every environment...

It's argued this isn't the case as works evenings (roughly 8-10 2 times a week, so still 4 hours short but I can't get upset about it). I guess it's more flexi hours than condensed. But it's irrelevant to me, I don't work 8-10pm, i need updates and someone to communicate with 12-5!!

Condensed hours where I work is opting to work 10 hr days and having very other Friday off for example. Surely if she isn't working full time hours she is just part time with an odd working pattern.

You say the work is getting done, but the communication/handover is missing?

Is your boss also her boss? I think I’d say that there have been instances where you are waiting for work to be delivered from her/her team and it’s draining available resources of time. To go forward, can there be a daily handover email/teams call in the last 5 minutes of her short days, and can you have a designated contact on her team (doesn’t have to be the same person each time) for ongoing queries outside of her work time.

I think it’s fair that you first try to look for solutions together.

What you find frustrating is poor management - i.e. her manager is not managing her role properly. That said, does her manager even know there is a problem? Have you spoken to your manager about this? Don't assume they are aware of the impact on your team. Instead of focusing your energy on this colleague, focus it on the challenges facing your team and let those higher up know. They can then work out how best to solve it, which might mean having her work more hours, changing responsibilities and processes within that team, restructuring the roles, or some amazing technical solution, or who knows what - that's their problem to work out.

Are these things that need updating straight away or can they wait until the next day? Of course she should be working the correct number of hours (or producing the right amount of output if that's how your jobs are measured) and arrangements should be made to deal with anything that's urgent during her non working time and if she's supposed to update you then obviously she should do that.

It's not always the hours worked that's the problem, but how it's managed.

I never understand how condensed hours work. Part time, yes. But unless you've got an in person role (like long nursing shifts), or a timetable where its actually genuinely useful you being available over a longer working day (like time differences with colleagues abroad) i feel like most people on condensed hours just wind up working part time on full pay.

We have a handover call, but it tends to go

"Here's what I have so far you will get rest by x time"

X time roles around - don't have it.

No one to contact while she is gone!!

I don't mind them running over with times, I do too but I'd like to know when I can expect to receive things especially as half the time it's
"I was waiting for x" but turns out I'd never have needed that part anyway and I could have had what I needed earlier!

We tried have a designated contact but that turned into
"Hey can I have an update on XYZ"
"Sure let me find out"

Then I'd wait ages for the designated contact to get a hold of each person individually, find out what's happening, still do their own work and then get back to me!

She's a lovely girl, I like working with her and she's great on office days but WFH days and her shortened days are a nightmare!!

Maybe it's the nature of your work that means having an afternoon where she uncontactable is really detrimental, but I would maybe try and chill out a bit more? I work closely with teams in Asia, we overlap in the morning and then they go offline around lunchtime. I have to accept that anything I don't get sorted with them before 12 won't be picked up til tomorrow. Is it not possible to just accept that in your role?

It's not that it needs updating but often my team are reliant on her teams work to do there's so we end up delayed.

Focus your conversation on the issues arising from not being able to get updates at specific times. Don't mention condensed hours. Ask her to work together on a solution. If you can't come to an arrangement then raise with your boss. If the condensed hours are an issue let them come to that conclusion themselves.

Sorry but I'm confused - it doesn't sound as though she's doing condensed hours at all. How many hours is she supposed to work per week?

How often would you say you’ve been delayed/ she hasn’t delivered on time?

Have you raised it with your boss?

I think if it’s becoming a pattern where your team is negatively impacted by her not delivering to an agreed timescale, you need to step in and protect the interests of your team. It’s not fair if your team are expected to rush through work because it hasn’t got to them when it should have, and I do think it’s worth highlighting to your boss in terms they will accept as being detrimental (My team are currently unproductive due to x not arriving from y’s team as agreed. I’m unable to chase up as she is currently OOH)

What did she say when you raised it with her?

We work 35 hours (lunch takes it up to 40).

3 days of 7
2 of 4

2 evenings of 2 hours - so 33 hours.

She's 2 short but does work harder in the office than I do so not so bad.

I guess it's more flexi hours but it's called condensed in my office.

Divert your attention away from her and instead have a discussion with your supervisor about the delays you're experiencing and the impact they have on you and your team. Don't make it about her.

One employer I worked in a call centre, we did 4 days of 10-8 and it was a killer esp when their clocks were 3 mins slow and missed the bus by 2 mins and having to sit in the bus station for 30 mins for the next bus Didn't get home til 9:15pm. On Sundays, we did 9-5 (did 2 out 5) and I drove in as there was a car park opposite which was foc.

We got a right telling off for going over our toilet time. They should have increased it by 25% as some departments still did 5 days. The more you talk, the more you drink and more you need the loo. One week the only loos available were on the 2nd floor - we were on the ground and our passes didn't work for the area where the loos were located. So had to wait til someone went through the doors to use them. Loos were out of action on ground floor for flooding and can't remember why the others on 1st floor were out of action for.

The problem is that many employers agree compressed/part time hours without considering the impact on the business or other employees.

So people work part time or altered hours, don't work Fridays or school holidays etc and no-one is in place to pick up the missing effort during that time and everyone else has to wait.

Absolutely this!

@CliptyClo we need to encourage more flexible working as it encourages women back into the workplace. She probably has childcare arrangements. This isn’t a her problem, it’s work issue which your manager should be fixing, without compromising the colleague trying to support her family.

This is a conversation for your line manager.

I understand your frustration but surely there must be other ways round it. Do your teams need to be able to communicate or transfer more to each other rather than everything being siphoned through 2 individuals? It sounds like the sort of thing that could done on Slack, Teams or similar so people can pick things up at their own work times.

What happens when you or her are on holiday?

If she’s getting the work done then I don’t see it as an issue

1. Agree that the blue widgets will be ready by 12pm Tuesday.
2. At 12:05pm Tuesday send her and her designated person an email saying “Hi Liz and Susie. Are the blue widgets ready? We can’t start making the purple widgets until you send them to us.
3. At 3pm email Liz, Susie, your boss and Liz’s boss “Hi Liz and Susie. What is happening about the blue widgets? Is there an issue? They are now very overdue which is putting the purple widget delivery at risk.
4. At 4:30pm email your boss and say “still no sign of the blue widgets. I will chase again but just wanted you to be aware that purple widgets are likely to be delayed.”
5. At 5pm email the same 4 people as in (3) and say “Any update on the blue widget? Purple widgets are now going to be late which means that the red widgets will also be delayed.”

Do this Every Single Time.

I work part time. I just make sure that I meet all my deadlines for the entire day before I stop work. It is not hard.