AIBU to be upset about children’s services calling about child hurt at school not home?

[AandEvisitor]

I took my child to hospital to get checked over after a fight at school

Today I’ve had a phone call from CS saying they had a hospital referral and wanted to check how the child was / any further problems etc etc

At the time, I just answered them all but as the day has gone on I’m worried why this was referred to them at all

It didn’t sound like she had spoken to the school as asked me things like if the other child had been extruded!

Op I get why you’re feeling a bit judged by the call but I think I’d probably think it right that ss spoke to me, as my child’s responsible parent, if they’d been assaulted in a fight. To be honest that feels more like they’re in partnership with me, rather than if they spoke to the school and cut me out of the loop. You’re the person best placed to say how your child is now, if there are any further issues concerning you, etc.

Thank you - my nerves are a bit shattered at the moment and struggling to think straight

The minute I answered the phone and he said “ Hi, it’s childrens services - nothing to worry about…” my heart felt like I was having a mini heart attack!

I wonder if they’ll contact school / the other child’s parents

Social services do not need parental permission to speak to schools or any other professional for that matter if there are concerns about a child.

A ‘jumped’ up NHS person?
You mean someone who is looking out for a child that has had an injury?

A solicitor ? Christ!!!!

Not true!

Social services do not need parent permission to call or do anything !

Would you want them to contact school and discuss your child without you though? Surely you would prefer they rang and spoke to you?

Your child was beaten up.

Child services are there for the safeguarding and protection of children.

So your child beaten up enough to need hospital treatment had the service designed to protect them - protecting them.

No need to be concerned. The school can verify where it happened.

They are doing a safeguarding procedure that's been triggered by the hospital. Presuming if it was a fight, and serious enough to need hospital treatment they want to check all is ok. I guess they might want to see if he was in a gang, being bullied, had drug or alcohol or MH issues?
I'm sure they weren't scrutinising your parenting. More that if there was something awry, they wanted to hear it from you. They could well be also speaking briefly to the school in a similar way. I hope your son is OK now?

If a child has been injured in an assault, I will always refer this to safeguarding. Always. It's my professional and legal duty to do this and the whole point is that no value judgement of the child / their family is being made because the referral is mandatory. It's for the social worker to follow up and establish facts, context etc that could be missed if the only assessment was the one made in AE. If a social worker is going to follow up on the safety of a child who has been assaulted, of course they have to speak to that child's parents and they're likely to speak to them first - would you really want it any other way?

I do appreciate this is a really horrible thing to experience and you may feel like you're being questioned or doubted. Actually this is routine and a child who has been assaulted will always be referred, even if their parent gives a watertight account of an event happening at school with another child. Unfortunately the alternative of not following up has been shown, time and time again, to result in the preventable further injury and even death of children.

You might have said that this event happened at school and a very superficial investigation materialises that your son didn't attend school on the day of the assault and is in fact involved in county lines, or was assaulted by your partner who has a previous conviction for assault of a minor etc etc. Sadly there are very nice-seeming, likeable people who will in fact lie convincingly to professionals who then don't follow due process. That's exactly what has happened in several high profile cases ending in tragedy.

One way I phrase this to families is "10 safe and well cared for children may have to endure this invasive and upsetting process so that 1 child who isn't safe can be identified and protected". Your engagement with this process might not be necessary to protect your son but having a universal process is going to protect another child.

I hope that your son is recovering well and this is behind you soon.

We don’t need permission to phone school, GPs, the police, health visitors, school nurses, or any professional dealing with children.

We should and do, talk to each other. It’s partly how we recognise when people are making up stories.

I do completely understand that but I didn’t need to take him to a&e other than to be checked over as he had been hit in the head during the fight so it was purely to have him looked at because I wasn’t there at school with him to know how hard the punch was etc and I wanted it recorded in case of any future retaliations etc by this other student - if something was trying to covered surely I wouldn’t take a teenager to be checked over in a&e!

You could do a subject access request with social work and children’s services.

Also remember that the safeguarding process is not there to investigate YOU, but all people (and organisations) that could be hazardous to your son. For example if this assault had been serious, and the other child continued to pose a threat to your son, the involvement of a social worker could be a great asset to you in prompting the school to manage / address that risk and keep your son safe.

Of course this situation is personal to you, but it is not personal to the referrer. They are aware that if further preventable harm came to your son, after attending AE because of an assault, the explanation "I didn't follow the due process because his mum seemed really nice" would be unforgivable.

The process is not "refer if you get a bad feeling about the mum", rather "follow these objective, mandatory criteria". What I suspect could have been done better, is informing you of the referral and reassuring you about it being mandatory and totally routine, in the AE department. You should not have been left with the unpleasant surprise of a social worker calling. But, people are very rushed these days and it's possible a less experienced member of staff was prompted to make the mandatory referral by a senior, after you had already left.

Edit: you're right that presenting to AE with no significant injury just for a check up, is of course, a context that is very reassuring. That is why only a low key kind of follow up has happened (just a phone around various involved parties to further establish what happened and I expect the matter will be closed v quickly). The phone calls are really just a further opportunity for someone (including you) to speak up if something concerning was going on. The threshold for these things is really very low, much lower than actually having a suspicion of something untoward.

I really appreciate your thorough response

I’ve had a hard time recently with school for various reasons so this was an additional stress that really got to me so today was just an extra blow but of course I’m pleased there are processes to keep all children, including mine, safe ☺️

I would presume they are doing their job and putting the child first and not parents sensitivities

That's no problem. It is really stressful and unsettling. It will be okay though. I hope you feel reassured that this is not about someone being suspicious of you.

I actually wonder if the person you saw might have not intended to refer, perhaps because they weren't concerned at all by the presentation (and therefore didn't warn you about the referral) but then someone else reviewing the paperwork, or supervising in some capacity, has triggered the process, without ever even meeting you. The system by design removes all barriers to anybody with any level of concern from submitting a referral. It's then for social services to very quickly assess and dismiss as appropriate - a safety net.

There have been times I wouldn't refer, but my consultant thinks we should, so we do. Referral is usually just like getting a second opinion even though you're pretty happy there's nothing to worry about. It's about "what if?" and also keeping sources of information as broad as possible. We would not actually allow a child to leave the hospital if there was felt to be an immediate threat to their safety at home.

I understand that and I honestly wouldn’t question them calling or anything if it happened at home with a sibling for instance - it was confusing for me because it happened in school and I was the one who contacted police and took him to be checked.

I am waiting to be assessed for ASD so maybe this affects my way of thinking / worrying

Would parents usually be told about a referral even if it was something like this that happened out of the house etc?

It was incredibly busy so perhaps that’s why they didn’t mention it

The recommendation is always that parents / guardians are informed at the time of the safeguarding referral, unless doing so would actually place the child at risk. But in practice, if you'd have left the department and then the decision was made after, it's unlikely someone will call you because they will be too busy or the time is antisocial etc. Or it can be simply overlooked or even avoided because staff find it so uncomfortable (obviously that isn't good practice but I think for some staff groups with less experience or authority they are honestly scared of or don't know how to have the conversation, especially if they're very busy / rushed).

Thinking back, when we first checked into the paediatric department, the lady who took all the details did say they would create a safeguarding form as this was an assault in school as I remember telling her I had already contacted the police

I didn’t tally that in my head for some reason as assumed it would be dealt with via the school if any further details needed and the SW didn’t ask for any details of the other boy but surely they’ll contact that family too?

Im a little worried about ongoing issues for my son if this boys family gets a social worker calling - maybe I should have asked him that yesterday but I felt quite shocked when the call came in

When I took DS to be x-rayed they asked where the injury occurred. When I said school, the receptionist put it down as educational something or other.

This is not true.

What is not true?

Was it an assault?
Im wondering if this is why I had the contact as my other child fell at school fracturing a finger and I had nothing but that was an accident not an assault

Wow! It's not 'some jumped up NHS person'. It's their job. They have processes they are required to stick to. They are there for the safety of all children.

Perhaps there has been an issue you are unaware of, with a number of children being assaulted at that school. Maybe they are checking for systematic bullying.

It isn't personal. It's a process to protect your child. I'd be grateful it exists and is working in your area.