To be sick of cyclists making pedestrians feel unsafe

[OptimismvsRealism]

Life is so much worse than it was ten years ago in cities precisely because of this

I'm a considerate pedestrian in that I use the crossings correctly, don't wander along looking at my phone and am generally aware of what's around me. Every day I have to dodge scooters and bikes on the pavement, sometimes going at speed.

On my road we have major work being done by a water company before some flats are built, and the road is blocked off. There is a blind corner with a shared narrow pavement for pedestrians and cyclists, and I have lost count of the number of times cyclists come speeding around that corner despite not being able to see who's approaching. And the worst ones for that are middle aged women, for some reason.

It's pretty damned arrogant to tell someone that 'their sense of fear is badly adjusted' when they're describing what they experience, but I've just checked the poster name. Something daft is to be expected.

You've missed the point of my post completely. The point is, I ride several thousand miles a year. I don't jump lights (amongst other things). I'm still treated like shit on the roads for being perfectly law abiding. Someone threw a drink at me out of a car window once, and shouted it's because I was a red-light jumping cunt. Yet as I said, it's rare to encounter a traffic light to jump in theifirst place, even if I wanted to (I don't want to). These 'all cyclists run over my nan on pedestrian crossing' posts are actively making it worse for those of us who do no such thing, and like I say, couldn't if they wanted to.

This sort of cyclist hate post fuels hatred and endangers the law abiding.

Yes in cities, based on my experience of London there are some twats on bikes, there are also twats on scooters and twats in cars, and twats on foot. The space is over-populated and over built and doesn't have enough public space.

I can acknowledge as a cyclist that the vast majority of motorists I encounter when cycling are more than reasonable and some are dickheads. I don't therefore scream blue murder at cars that just go about their business. Why is it acceptable for people to do this to cyclists just for being there, because a deliveroo rider cut them up on the pavement once?

This sort of cyclist hate post fuels hatred and endangers the law abiding.

That isn’t helped by cyclists like you posting referring to a “need to jump [lights]”, or saying the lack of lights or their enjoying a rest is the reason why they ride in a law abiding way.

You have revealed the attitude of too many cyclists- ‘the rules apply to me when it suits me’.

You are adding to your own problem, and then moaning that the problem exists.

Why is it acceptable for people to do this [scream blue murder] to cyclists just for being there, because a deliveroo rider cut them up on the pavement once?

It isn’t acceptable, obviously.

Neither is throwing drinks at cyclists, clipping their bikes on purpose, cutting them up or otherwise disturbing their safe passage on the road.

This thread is encouraging people to hate cyclists even though cyclists are not actually a danger to the public

Cyclists don't kill people like car drivers do through crashes - over 7000 plays 1-4 a year

Cyclists don't kill people like car drivers do with poisonous gas emissions and tyre and brake particles - try making that a thread and it will be "the anti car lobby" - you know those who try to prevent children dying unnecessarily

They don't lead to climate change which .. oh kills more people

( aside from the crash problem caused by car drivers ) cycling would not be impacting the NHS the way lazy drivers are - getting fatter ( yes being fat and unfit costs the NHS billions

This thread crops up regularly

Whereas there is never mention any issue with cars ( except when it's insisting the elderly shouldn't drive , that's agism it seems not anti car - as young people are more dangerous behind the wheel )

I don't even cycle anymore as I am too fucking scared and threads like this spreading hate , making out cyclists are the problem, make the problem worse

Facts , truth , logic - matter nothing if we can spread hate with a little "im so scared" narrative

Whenever I visit Liverpool (nearest major city) in the evening for a concert I do find myself dodging the various ninjas with fast food bags going onto the pavement or down the wrong side of the road.

I doubt that they'd be any better behaved if they were driving a VW Golf (other hot hatchbacks are available). I've seen the standard of parking among delivery drivers outside the Pizza Hut in the next town.

It's just like how that arsehole in lycra is still an arsehole when he's driving his Audi.

What has it got to do with you whether someone else wears a helmet or not? There is some evidence that wearing a helmet dehumanises one in the eyes of motorists and they're more likely to close pass.

Go to the Netherlands or Denmark and count how many people are wearing helmets. It'll mostly be the elderly riders.

Where have I said the rules only apply to me if it suits me. Of course they don’t. The rules apply to me regardless, and I try my hardest to abide by them (and by this I mean the same as any motorist. Can you honestly say on the road for example you’ve never ever misjudged a gap at a roundabout or bad visibility side road and caused another car to brake, (technically against the Highway Code but hardly cause for law enforcement). No doubt as you seem to be hell bent of picking up on phrasing rather than sentiment you’ll decide this means I’m some sort of deviant with no regard to rules but it actually couldn’t be further from the case. I will block overtakes if there are central traffic islands. Car + bike doesn’t fit through the gap together and I’ve been clipped by someone trying it, so now I ride right in the middle through these. That’s probably as ‘entitled’ as I get. I move back over once it becomes normal carriageway again.

I used the light jumping example because that has been brought up many times on the thread earlier than my post. You’ve somehow twisted this into me being entitled which is very much not the case. I was simply trying to say that even if I wanted to, which I don’t because I do actually abide by the law it would not be possible to jump lights because there are no lights, therefore I have no need/want/don’t even think about it and do it anyway (delete to suit your anti-bike agenda) to jump them. FWIW in many countries, cyclists can turn (right in Europe, but going to say left so you can understand what I mean, the direction that does not cross the junction) on a red light if it’s in a built up/30kph area, so most city centres for example. In Germany cars can too at certain junctions I believe. Doesn’t mean I do it, but it’s not the fallacy you think it is and is probably something that could come in here at some point.

The key point I was trying to make is that weekly you see on here ‘I’d respect cyclists if they had insurance, wore helmets, paid road tax, didn’t jump red lights, had cycle training’ and I was merely pointing out that I do do/have all of the above and yet am still abused weekly when on my bike. Just for existing.

Same thing happened to me, on a school trip with 6 year olds.
Except it was a car that didn’t stop or even brake, even when I banged on his bonnet & shouted.

In Germany cars can too at certain junctions I believe.
At some junctions there is just a simple sequence of "main road green; side road green" with no filters to independently control those turning right, nor is there a pedestrian crossing sequence. So the green man will illuminate for people to cross the side road even though the lights are also green for people to turn from the main road into the side road. The only protection is a flashing yellow light with a silhouette of a pedestrian to warn turning drivers that people may be crossing.

"Right turn on red" for cars is permitted in many US states and makes life very hazardous for pedestrians there. Particularly because the wankpanzers which many Americans drive are so high that they can't see anyone in front of their vehicle.

None of that is what you said.

You said the fact that there aren’t any lights, or that you enjoy a rest at the lights is the reason you follow the rules.

You also implied that sometimes there is a need to jump lights.

That was your phrasing, not mine.

I am just pointing out that your thinking is incorrect- you should follow the rules because it is the safe way to ride, not because of a lack of opportunity to break them, or because they happen to offer you a chance to rest.

That doesn’t mean it’s ok for cyclists to be abused in any way on the road. No one with any sense would think it does.

Both your attitude about cycling and the attitude of a lot of motorists about cycling are dangerously wrong.

@HildaOgdensMurielle I did not say that those things are the reason I follow the rules. You have somehow gleaned that. I simply said that it’s nice to have a rest at the sole set of lights I sometimes come across. It’s not the reason why I stop. I stop because it’s the rules, and I want cars to see that cyclists do stop, but yes it is a good opportunity to also have a drink etc, and I used this because maybe other cyclists who do go through them might see a benefit point to having a pause, and it’s a friendly personable comment. But the fact is I’m still called a red light jumping cunt by drivers. I have simply tried to illustrate that even if I wanted to there are not lights to jump. I have not said anywhere that if there were lights I would be jumping them, you have made this up. I am trying to demonstrate that the preconceived view of me by drivers is incorrect. I have used the lack of traffic lights in the local area to highlight that there are simply not many sets of them, and this is the same for the local car drivers, they have very few lights to stop at too. So where have they got the view that bikes jump lights from, to abuse me out of their window, when there are no lights to jump. Everyone I know stops at the lights. It’s therefore I reckon a view that comes from posts like this, from similar daily fail articles etc, from cyclist hate on twitter and the like.

I have not implied that there is a ‘need’ to jump lights at all. What I probably should have said was ‘motivation to’, but if I had a need to I’d have simply said what that ‘need’ was, which I didn’t because it doesn’t exist. I can understand some motivations to do it. It doesn’t mean they motivate me to, as I have repeatedly said, I’m a law abiding citizen thanks. Stop/start on a bike is massively harder work than maintaining momentum for example, and some sensor-based lights don’t trigger for a lone cyclist. It’s similar to the motivations for cars that run red lights. The ‘amber gambler’ shall we say.

I can be clever enough to see that there might well be motivations for people to do things that are against the law without doing them Or supporting them myself.

I know what I mean, and you’ve totally misinterpreted, which is possible to be done via text-based systems but I’ve tried several times now to clarify what I’m trying to say and so I’m going to ignore you now.

Cyclists ARE a danger to the public and I don't think any encouragement is needed to hate them. Wahwahing about cars doesn't change the fact that they don't stop at pedestrian crossings (especially the ones that cross cycle paths), they ride on pavements, they clip around from behind on "shared spaces" expecting pedestrians to be constantly on the lookout. I AM a pedestrians so don't tell me what I'm wrong to fear.

@TeresaCrowd

This is what you said:

“””My commute route has zero traffic lights on it. One of my longer weekend rides has one set, so I don’t have any need to jump them. I’m quite glad of the rest. It does however mean that I’m a perfectly law abiding cyclist”””

I did not say that those things are the reason I follow the rules. You have somehow gleaned that

I gleaned that because you wrote that the lack of lights and the enjoyment of a rest “MEANS” you follow the rules. It’s there in black and white.

I have not implied that there is a ‘need’ to jump lights at all.

Referencing your personal lack of need implies that there are people or situations where there is a need to jump lights.

You know as well as me what you meant, you just didn’t expect anyone to point out that you are wrong.

I agree. Cyclists should be registered!

Stop picking on @TeresaCrowd over her use of the word "need", @HildaOgdensMurielle .

I know what she meant.

I drive, cycle and walk but my default mode of transport is walking.

Cyclists don't make me feel unsafe, but then it's because I'm not close enough to the city to witness all the alleged red light jumping and knocking pedestrians over on pavements as suggested on here. Most of the time, I don't have any issues with them.

However, a Deliveroo on a bike scraped the back of my legs when I was in town, and cursed me as he cycled past. The reason for this was because he's an arsehole not because he was a cyclist.

Threads like these are usually about the minority rather than cyclists as a group!

I’m not picking on anyone, this isn’t a playground (although if you think it is feel free to report my posts to the teacher).

She said what she said. I pointed out the problem with her attitude and beliefs. She doesn’t like that, fair enough.

The problem was with what you believed her attitude and beliefs to be. Not what they actually were.

Thank you @xsquared. I think that in day to day speech there is a lot of crossover of want/need/would really like to/am tempted to do XYZ. I thought most normal people are chill about this but clearly some people are hell bent on picking it apart. It’s certainly nothing to do with my attitudes or beliefs and it’s a bit unfair that it’s been made personal against me. I’m glad someone else can see what I’m trying to say as I was beginning to try and work out how to re-word it if it was confusing to the wider population on here.

I’m all up for discussion on the wants/motivations for red light jumping in cities, because I have an ability to see more than one side of the story regardless of whether or not I personally agree, and as I said it’s something I just don’t see day to day, but I do use London roads from time to time though almost always in a car or van, and do see it there, but I think that other poster just wanted an argument. I’m not engaging with her further.

She said what she said. If she didn’t want people to believe her then she shouldn’t have said it.

Exactly dosent mean they should come onto the path agree.
It's not good having to worry if a bloody bike is going to go into the back of you. 👎

Explain how you are going to register my DD and her friends?

DD started cycling on a proper bike at 3. Lots of her friends started cycling at 4.

Oh and my DD for various reasons currently has 2 bikes.

As a cyclist who - like the vast majority of cyclists - is also a pedestrian and a driver, I'm genuinely sorry that this is your experience. My own experience is different: I feel frightened of cars very frequently when cycling (probably at least every other journey a car passes too close or does something else that makes me feel unsafe), I feel infrequently frightened by both bicycles and cars when walking (neither happens often, but I can certainly recall scary incidents with both). The only thing that ever scares me when I'm driving is other drivers. I see a lot more very poor driving than I see very poor cycling, but I also see a lot more driving than cycling in general. Ultimately our experiences are both anecdotal but very real to us. The statistical evidence is very, very clear about which vehicle type is the greater threat on average, but that doesn't make much difference in the moment where you're in an incident that makes you feel unsafe.

Agree.

Mother is elderly and cyclist knocked her flying.

17 year old with autism just avoided cyclist on pavement yesterday.

Some cyclists on pavements when it suits, through red lights, wrong way up roads, on roads all over the place. Appalling

Totally agree. Gave to on the look out to jump out of their way on shared spaces. Dreadful attitudes seen by cyclists.

It never used to be this bad.

I find that people say this, but there is utter outrage any time it is proposed that a cycle lane is introduced that cuts into space for cars, which is the only alternative in most places to shared-use pavements.