To be sick of cyclists making pedestrians feel unsafe

[OptimismvsRealism]

Life is so much worse than it was ten years ago in cities precisely because of this

The research on this is pretty clear. When you look at whole populations, mandating helmets doesn't reduce injuries, and may actually be associated with an increase in injuries.

Far too many cyclists use the excuse of lack of infrastructure to excuse themselves from breaking the law.

I was in Oxford yesterday. There's a wide road, no cycle lanes, but it's access only so the only vehicles using it were buses, delivery vans and emergency vehicles, so not many vehicles at all, so no need for a cycle lane. Presumably it had been made access only to protect people like cyclists!!

I was using a pelican crossing to cross over and the light changed to green for me to cross. I looked and saw some bloke in a suit and tie bombing towards me. I put my hand out to stop him ignoring the lights and hitting myself and others who were crossing. He came to a screeching half and gave a load of verbal abuse. He was completely oblivious to the red traffic lights and clearly though he had right of way. He then just bumped up onto the pavement to pass everyone who was crossing the road.

Yes cars are worse. But for the most part as a pedestrian cars are only a problem at junctions. It's increasingly common to meet dangerous cyclists on every footpath, helmetted and high vizzed for their own protection but giving zero fucks about the pedestrians having to jump out of their way. When my dc was a toddler I got a mouthful of abuse when he was nearly hit by a motorised cyclist on the pavement of our local High Street, for causing him to brake. Leaving my front gate is dangerous now as I live on a hill and it's a blind exit to the pavement so you have to poke your head out to check for cyclists flying down the path at speed.

Nobody is saying cyclists don't have a shit time on the roads, they do. I gave up commuting on bike as it was a nightmare. It would never have occurred to me to do my commute by bike on the pavement. We need safe pavements for pedestrians and safe cycle lanes for bikes.

They are putting themselves in danger too because they are relying on everything in their path moving out of the way.

Depending on the width, camber and quality of the pavement/crossing I can’t get out of the way.

Yes if a cyclist hit my chair it would be dangerous to me, but it would also send them flying- they are going to hit a solid metal structure which won’t crumple or move as they hit it like a person will.

A young lad near here was killed when he miss judged a corner going at speed, hit a low wall and was catapulted onto a field. That is what I can see happening if someone hit me, or even some other obstruction they weren’t expecting… some people leave all sorts of crap on pavements.

Maybe try to drive better and not hit anyone to start with.

Have you reported this to the police? Ultimately it’s a serious injury collision (any broken bone is classified as a serious injury) and even if you don’t think there’s a hope of finding the rider, if there’s potential for CCTV that could lead to an appeal and they may or may not be identified. Alternatively the cyclist in the cold light of day might have reported it themselves. By reporting it the collision would be recorded as occurring and add to the stats 19 figures which are used to determine road safety measures. You should be able to report it online.

I haven't reported it. I was too upset but it's a good point. I will.

You think that all mopeds are insured?

You think that the only way to seek redress is through insurance? You know that it's possible to sue someone anyway, don't you?

You think that all mopeds are insured?

No. Where did I say that ?

You think that the only way to seek redress is through insurance?

No. Where did I say that ?

You know that it's possible to sue someone anyway, don't you?

Yes. What happens if they don't have enough money to pay for the lifelong treatment needed for the injuries they caused ?

Better infrastructure.

Space for people to ride bikes safely, which will go a long way to getting them off the pavement.

Reducing / calming car traffic in city centres, which if done well should reduce car deaths.

This. So bored of these threads. Despite what you perceive, statistics clearly show that motorists are a much bigger danger than cyclists. By a long way. Which makes sense as cars are bigger, heavier and go much faster.

The mental load is high partly just because you aren't used to it.

Better design would also help here. The Netherlands makes it work by not assuming that cars will be the dominant form of transport.

Apart from the fact that the moped rider would have mandatory insurance
You did use "would", which is pretty definite, unlike "should".

I don't really think so.

I agree that the mental load of new things will go down over time, typically.

But that only works to a point. When it gets to a place where you actually need to be paying attention to too many things at once, it's not going to go down, or not much.

I think some of the changes I'm seeing over the past few years to infrastructure are creating that kind of situation. It's like the people designing them assume that they can make things more complex infinitely, and people will just adjust.

I also think that in some of them, it's actually impossible for any driver to be properly safe - they are always sacrificing one thing to another. It's not physically possible to look at more than one thing at a time.

It also ignores the fact that there will always be quite a few people who are not driving in these areas regularly, so are not experienced. You can't design roads so that anyone who isn't an experienced driver is at significant risk of making an error.

Which brings me to another trend I hate among traffic people these days - painting wonky crossings and political slogans on the road and other stupid things that are not standardized.

Yes, I don't think Dutch heads are any harder than UK heads.

And if a driver squashes me, it isn't going to make any difference if I had a helmet on. The driver could also try to drive properly and not squash me, if that helps.

Also, why is it only cyclists who need helmets and not pedestrians?

I also think that in some of them, it's actually impossible for any driver to be properly safe - they are always sacrificing one thing to another. It's not physically possible to look at more than one thing at a time

Even more so for pedestrians when they are crossing side roads and apparently drivers think they should be looking in about six directions at once.

But I do agree that it can be difficult for drivers too. One example is a roundabout at our local station where cyclists try to under and overtake drivers at the same time. I don't know how they expect drivers to see them. You can't physically look in about three directions at the same time!

Yes. The constant hate for cyclists is really tedious. Cyclists are not the problem.

I once had that when a mum told me to get out of the way on the pavement because she was cycling with her small son. I said they should be on the road and she told me I was being stupid because her son was only 4. Well, yes, but I had priority. I don't have an issue with cyclists on pavements, but I do have an issue with them expecting me to get out of the way. If you use the pavement (illegally remember) you give way to pedestrians.

@BringBackLilt

a cycling helmet is only made to withstand a force from 12mph or less - so a driver and cyclist crash isn't going to be any different outcome unless the driver and the cyclist are travelling at under this speed

https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/document/2019/11/helmets-policy_4s_cuk_rv.pdf

helment ar e great idea for children learning to ride or n the event of them falling off the bike without anyone else involved.

Yes. What happens if they don't have enough money to pay for the lifelong treatment needed for the injuries they caused ?

deducted out of your income, courts can have this directly paid from your wages by your employer - there is a cap on how much, but it can be done

Yeah, I suppose the uk approach is to try and squeeze more things in without any concessions from car traffic. The difference with th e Netherlands is that they seem to be willing to slow cars a little.

The difference with th e Netherlands is that they seem to be willing to slow cars a little.

in the 1970s the dutch protested to stop driver dominance and for change. The change happened and it means a very large proportion of drivers cycle. The dutch don't use driving as a way of transport for every trip, instead using bicycles. When drivers come in contact with cyclists, they treat them differently as they understand their position on the road

The ones that don’t follow the rules and endanger others are a problem.

The ones that don’t follow the rules and endanger others are a problem.

of course they are, but the question is how do we stop people breaking the rules and endangering others?

I have never had an accident or hit anyone in over 25 years of driving. So my driving doesn't need to be any better.

I have however, had many cyclists at traffic lights pull off in front of me and weave about in front of my car, without a helmet on. I haven't 'hit' any of them because I am a careful driver. I'm not sure why you're telling me to be more careful or drive better.

If you're happy to not wear a helmet, that's your choice. I think it's a reckless one.
You've managed to change my mind though. I'll no longer worry about other people's choices. I'll carry on driving in the safe and sensible fashion I always have.