To think about leaving?

[Sickofatrocity]

Posted before with a different title and didn't get any replies, so reposting.

Husband doesn't work because of a chronic condition. It's true that he struggles with organisation and motivation due to his condition and medication, but, equally, he was also quite lazy before this happened to him. He cooks, goes to the supermarket, drops child off at the nursery in the mornings, takes bins out, and loads and unloads the dishwasher. I do all other cleaning, all the mental load, I work (sometimes two jobs), pick up from nursery, all the driving and stuff to do with the car, and I take on the majority of the emotional labour with the childcare, and, of course, the invisible mental load. For example, we are moving house right now, and it is me who has so far thought of 100% of the things that need to be done and actioned 90% of them, while my husband has done around 10%. My husband watches our child on the occasional day that there is a public holiday but I need to work. He will also sometimes manage to do some tasks if I leave him with a list, but this is variable.

Lately, he's been trying to do more. He has been doing a little more, but it is just a drop in the ocean, really, compared to what I do. He wants a bloody medal for doing significantly LESS than I do every day, and when I point out that nobody thanks me or appreciates me for doing a thousand times more, he gets annoyed. He says I keep "raising the bar". He doesn't understand why I don't want to sleep with him. In fact, I am fed up and close to divorce. I'm going to make one last attempt, but, ultimately, if things don't change then I am done. It may well be that he can't do more (though I don't think this is the case - his father is also very lazy around the house, so I think it is at least in part learned behaviour), but I'm not prepared to do it all for him. I'd rather be by myself doing it, as then at least I wouldn't be angry all the time, and things would actually be clean (as he is in the house all day, inevitably creating more dirt and mess as he has to use things more than they would be used if we were all out of the house).

I'm aware I might get a string of Mumsnetters saying things like, "dump him now" but we have been together a long time (over 20 years) but only recently had a child, and he did not always have this condition. It's not that straightforward. But recently, I have started to think about it in terms of what is and is not sustainable. Rightly or wrongly, my anger and resentment about this is not sustainable, so if the only way to address that is divorce, then that is what needs to happen.

I suspect that there will also be people who will suggest it is diplomatic to thank him, or that his experience is still his experience and we all need praise etc. to keep growing. And, yes, I get that, and I do also agree with that. But, just no. No, I am not going to thank him for doing almost fuck all in a day when I am rushed off my feet from 7 am until midnight. It might make him do more if I thank him. It might be a better way of getting him to see my side, but I am sick and tired of entitled men who just think this shit is ok and demand recognition and thanks for things that women are doing EVERY EFFING DAY.

Can you tell how angry and pissed off I am? I've had three years of this, and I am just so done with it.

On a different note, I really would like to try one more time, so I've been searching for how to access the Fair Play domestic labour documentary outside the U.S. but I have no idea how to do this. If anybody else does, I'd love to know.

Based on my chronic health condition he does way more than I could. Doesn’t matter what others think though if it’s not working for you then it isn’t.

I'm not sure that's very relevant tbh. It doesn't even sound like it's the physical stuff that bothers OP as much as taking on all the mental load on top of the 90% she does. If her DH showed willing with the stuff he is able to do but currently doesn't, it would probably make a huge difference.

OP is there any way that you can start quietly delegating stuff that's within his limitations? I'm thinking more admin, planning, organising etc?

I think this is it. I'm not sure if it is because of his chronic condition or not. Maybe a bit of both. But I'm just fed up of living like this. I'm burned out all the time. This sounds terrible, but it's true: he was in hospital recently, and things were just so much easier when he was away. I had to do more, but things were clean and it was better.

We don't really get along anymore. I am resentful all the time because I'm so burnt out and he doesn't seem to care. He just expects me to do everything, which I have done for years now. But there is no recognition, no thanks, no acknowledging that he would like to do more and if he could then he would...nothing. It's just endless sleeping on the couch for two hours a day and bedtime at 9 right after our daughter sleeps, meanwhile I labour on until midnight getting stuff done or doing my extra working from home job.

I just feel so disappointed and hurt that he is like this. I've told him how I feel, spelled it out to him, but he doesn't seem to care. It's really come to a head after we had a child, as before that there wasn't nearly as much work to do.

The thing is though physical/mental load -
it’s all the same. I can only relate to mine whereby summoning the energy to think about doing things is just as hard as doing them. Unfortunately where one half of the partnership is ill the other half needs to take on the majority or leave. Today I’ve managed put a load of washing on, make mine and the dogs breakfast. Washing machine now needs unloaded and I need a coffee but that will need to wait a few hours or on DH doing it. Maybe he is also a bit lazy, who knows.

I actually agree with this.

It isn't fair on you op, but nor is a chronic condition. You really don't have to stay together, but if you do, the likelihood is that (depending on what his condition is etc) you might end up doing more than he does.

I think that's it, though @Sparklfairy . The mental load is just as exhausting for me, too. I'm exhausted all the time, and I'm burning out. I'm not sure how much of it is medication/illness and how much isn't, but I just feel (reasonably or unreasonably so) so angry all the time that he sleeps so much, spends hours on his phone, manages to do some hobbies, etc. while I am barely coming up to breathe. Even now, I am doing this as I work, on a Saturday, while he sleeps on the couch. It's not the life I wanted to live. I think it's also his attitude, as it just all feels so thankless and I wonder what the hell am I doing killing myself for someone who doesn't appreciate it.

@Girlputyourrecordson What do you mean "more than he does"?

I know his chronic condition isn't fair. However, it's also complicated by the fact that this in part a mental illness, and his personality and interests, everything, really, have changed. So we are not as close anymore. And he doesn't acknowledge or validate how I'm feeling or what I'm doing for him.

Is he depressed? Sleeping a lot and spending a lot of his time on his phone sounds like that could be an issue?

Maybe he doesn’t care OP, or maybe he’s just too damn exhausted to deal with how you obviously feel. I’m totally not saying either of you are in the wrong because I’m not living your life so I can’t answer that. All I can do is relate to how chronic illness has devastated my life. DH does pretty much everything and he doesn’t mind but I hate it, that was my job to do the traditional housewife stuff. It worked well for us but now I spend most of my time sleeping. Again if it’s not working for you then it just isn’t. To be fair it would probably be easier for him to be single as then there’s no one to disappoint or to make him feel disappointment in himself.

@Chiarali He has a chronic mental illness, but it is not depression. He is definitely not depressed.

I don't know how else to say that tbh...you might end up doing more than he does. It's quite a simple statement 🤷‍♀️

I'm not saying it doesn't sound rough and also can tell it's really getting to you and damaging your relationship. But I don't think there's an easy solution here.

Are you looking for permission to break up? You don't need it. You don't sound like you're getting on. You could try couples therapy maybe

Good luck

I’m not sure what his condition is or how it affects him, but have you ever looked at spoon theory?

Not a typo 🤣

Spoon theory is basically that people with chronic condition run out of energy quicker. Most people brush their teeth without giving it a second thought. With a health condition it uses one of your spoons and means that there’s something else that day you won’t be able to do.

worth a Google. It may not be relevant but it could explain why he’s not doing a lot.

@Girlputyourrecordson No, I mean I genuinely don't understand what you mean. I already do more than he does? I do everything, and when he is there it tends to be even more than if it is just me and our chid as he is home all day and makes a lot of mess, which I clean up.

No, obviously I'm not looking for "permission" to break up. It's just hard to get perspective. I feel a tremendous amount of guilt for wanting to leave. I'm aware that it isn't his fault that he has an illness. I also don't think it is entirely his illness, as he has always been very lazy around the house. When we were both working, this wasn't so much of an issue. Now that he doesn't work and is IN the house all day but does little to clean up, it is an issue. Everything is always dirty.
And I know for a fact that he does think that housework is beneath him and isn't a man's job. So the situation isn't really black and white. He spends a lot of time working on his own personal projects, but refuses to spend time cleaning. I am sure that he just expects me to do it.

Also, the previous poster saying he is just too exhausted to deal with my feelings - I know for a lot of chronic illness this is true, but not for this chronic illness. Actually, he is quite energetic a lot of the time (I assume because he is always so well-rested after his naps), so it isn't really that. It may be a motivational issue, but separating how much of it is motivation from how much is just the same aversion to cleaning, organising, and housework that he previously had is pretty difficult.

Either way, it is also the personality change and the lack of acknowledgement or care that I am worn out, often only getting about 5 hours sleep, that I deal with almost all childcare (night wakings, buying/thinking of/comforting/teaching our child) etc I guess just some recognition that it is hard for me would go a long way.

This sounds so tough, OP. I'm guessing that he revealed/you figured out that he didn't think housework was a man's job until after the baby was here? They always tend to reveal themselves once you are really anchored in.

@Foxblue Yes, exactly. I'm kicking myself now for not having that conversation. It just never occurred to me that it would be like this.

@StormingNorman This is interesting, but, equally, this is what I feel that I am like right now. My own spoons are depleting because I'm not getting sleep, doing too much, burning out. I just feel as though nobody really cares or takes into account my wellbeing or the fact that I am not a machine. I can't keep going like this, and I don't want to either. Also, my husband uses his spoons on things for him, never things for us. I use all my spoons on things for me, our child, and the house. I never, ever have spoons for myself.

If he isn't doing housework because he thinks it's beneath him that's completely different and a bit of a drip feed!

You don't sound happy and I understand why. You say you don't want to leave him, but if he's always been like this to a degree and you could only tolerate it more because he wasn't in the house, then that doesn't sound like a good relationship. Only you know if there's anything worth saving or if it's even worth exploring the idea that it is worth saving. On paper, I would also be considering leaving.

To clarify again I meant that when one half of a couple has a chronic illness, it is to be expected that, in some cases, the other person will end up doing more than their ill partner, as you already are. I hope that is clearer

From your posts my understanding is that you want more support/help from your DH. You understand that his chronic condition means that some tasks are beyond his abilities but that there are others he can take on but hasn’t.

Compounding this lack of support is that he is using what capabilities he does have on his hobbies rather than the support you need.

@StormingNorman is spot on raising spoon theory to explain some of the imbalances you feel are happening. However, spoon theory is an explanation not an excuse (as I’m sure StormingNorman would agree.)

My suggestion is to with your DH work out everything that needs doing round the house - physical and mental tasks and write them on a loooong old list and them between you (look up FairPlay method).

Depending on his condition look at how it impacts the conception/planning/execution of a task. For me I’m severely impacted in the planning/excution phase because of executive function and task initiation issues. So I have todoist that structures all
the tasks I need to do on a rolling schedule and has a chronological list of what the task entails - this reduces the burden of thinking on me and leaves me the energy to just do. Also better an app/alexa nags me than a person which can result in feeling emotionally attacked.

If you want to leave that's your choice. As you want to give it another go have you explained to him how much stress and pressure you are under and that you are going to burn out? I'd be completely honest and clear with him that you are considering leaving as you can't cope with it much longer.
Try looking for support groups for carers, you can contact adult social care at your local council for a carers assessment, your DH may also be elligibe for some support from adult social care with cleaning etc which could take some of the pressure off. Being with someone with a disability is really difficult, talking to others in similar situations who can validate your feelings can really help.
Is your DH claiming PIP or any other disability benefits? If not look into this and stop working 2 jobs. Having 2 jobs and a young child would be too much for most people even if the household stuff was split 50/50.

Totally agree @LittleRedYarny. Spoon theory may go some way to understanding why he’s not doing a lot but it’s not an excuse.

I have a chronic condition and run out of spoons quickly but it is down to me to manage that the vast majority of the time. Sometimes you go through a bad patch and best laid plans go out the window but he need to have an achievable plan.

For example, he may not be able to whizz round the house in one day so he needs a rota based on what he can do: Monday hoover, Tuesday change the bedding, Wednesday unpack the food shop delivery, Thursday clean the bathrooms, Friday clean the kitchen, Saturday wash and hang out the kids school uniforms.

If he plans those jobs for the morning, he should have a spoon left to prep dinner in the afternoon. A big batch of bolognaise is as easy to make as a small batch and could do dinner for two nights. If he did meals like that twice a week that’s four nights of dinners done. If he can’t do that, he can do fish fingers, chips and peas one night. Roast chicken is my easy go to for low energy days. Takes literally 5 minutes in total to put it in and take it out an hour or so later. Serve it up with a bought coleslaw, cherry tomatoes and a bag of leaves. No effort at all.

Being ill doesn’t mean he gets a free pass to be a self-absorbed twat. I’m sorry if that did t come across earlier. I was just thinking that if you could understand it, it would be easier to accept the balance of work is likely to remain with you and work on what he can do.

Spot on and completely agree. The theory it explains why after doing something you need downtime to re-group or can only clean the kitchen or bathroom it doesn’t absolve you of doing the task in the first place.

Another thing is for me some tasks I just really really hate and having a lifelong condition makes that worst - so I got a robot mop. (Lucky to be able to afford to do this.) But the point is here there is options and help available to outsource stuff and if your DH got even a part time job you could afford these options. On that basis OP I would recommend he looks into Access to Work (really super simple process to apply and extremely helpful) and PIP (waaay harder but still an option) this money could alleviate a lot of hardship for you both.

YANBU, it sounds shit @Sickofatrocity, I understand why you're so fed up.

If you're really at the stage where you're considering divorce, then there's nothing to be lost from sitting down for a proper, no-holds-barred, gloves-off, conversation with him. I would start by asking him to be totally honest about how his condition affects him, physically and mentally, and what sort of things (housework, mental load, childcare) he finds easiest/hardest/impossible.

I'd share with him how you're feeling at the moment, and let him know exactly how much you're having to do on your own, and importantly, how it makes you feel. You could let him know that you're even considering divorce - he needs to know this is a make or break situation.

Perhaps from talking about how much you are currently doing, and talking about what he is capable of doing, between you you may be able to see a path towards working as a team, rather than you feeling as if you have to drag him along and clear up the carnage in his wake.

Therapy may be a good idea anyway, considering how (understandably) resentful you're already feeling - it's pretty hard to come back from without some proper effort from the other person.

However things pan out OP, it's definitely not on you, and if you do end up separating, you'll know you tried your best, but you can't force another person to be less of a shit I'm afraid!

Thank you everyone. It's just so difficult. I feel a lot of guilt because of the illness, but I am so angry all the time. I just want this anger and resentment out of my life. He invalidates my feelings and experiences all the time. I have told him MANY times how I feel, how it affects me, and that I'm considering divorce.

Today, I told him that I knew he was doing more but that I was absolutely burnt out because I'm working from morning until late at night and I'm also doing all the emotional labour with our child. He responded by saying that sitting in front of the computer (my second job is a remote job) isn't "work" and that housework is real work, implying that I am not working hard. I'm just so angry. Yes, he has an illness, but he also gaslights me all the time. His behaviour (or lack of) and attitude towards me and the work I do makes me so angry, and I get mad at him. Then he plays the victim and turns it on me by saying that I have an anger problem or that I will start to "turn" on our child the way I have turned on him. But, actually, he is the only person that makes me angry. I feel absoutely furious all the time.

Equally, how can I leave when he refuses to leave and he also has no money, no bank account, and is completely dependent on me?

I’d be considering the logistics: will he be classed as a stay at home parent therefore you have to pay him maintenance? Will he be allowed to claim spousal maintenance as you’re the sole earner since however long? Please get some legal advice before making a move.

I agree with @Cherrysoup, it sounds like the time has come to get your ducks in a row and start making moves towards a happier life for yourself.

If the concern you feel about him 'not being able to cope or afford to survive' on his own is the main thing stopping you from leaving (or getting him to leave), then counselling may help you to clarify that it is him who is forcing the split, by making himself so utterly unbearable to live with.

While looking into the logistics of how a separation will work, I would suggest also finding out a bit about what entitlement to benefits or housing your H may be entitled to, as it sounds like being able to present the separation to him as a fait accompli may get him out more quickly - otherwise I imagine he will drag his heels finding these things out for himself. I know it's more work for you, but look at it as one of your final acts of service for him, and remember that in reality, you're doing yourself a favour in getting him out of your house more quickly!

It does sound so, so hard. Do you have any friends or family IRL you can talk things through with? I'm sure they will be supportive if you are honest with them about how bad things are.