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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How do you start being "nice" as a person without looking "weak"?

40 replies

greenglassfull · 27/06/2024 23:47

Just that really ...

Just to expand I have seen some recent threads where I think the OP is being kind and very helpful - what I would call "nice".

However I am also minded that being nice/kind can be seen as a weakness.

I want to be loving, kind, nice but also assertive - how do you/we strike a balance?

OP posts:
HolyPeaches · 28/06/2024 02:10

However I am also minded that being nice/kind can be seen as a weakness.

I’d say weak people are the complete opposite of nice. Being selfish, nasty and being a bully is the epitome of weakness.

A lot of the time nice people are taken advantage of by cheeky fuckers due to their nice, kind and caring nature. I think people who allow others to take advantage of them are either vulnerable or struggle with assertiveness and saying “no”.

You can absolutely be nice/kind and be assertive. I think it’s all down to confidence.

Eyeballpaula · 28/06/2024 06:08

I actually agree being nice/ kind can lead to (some) people thinking you are weak and you do have to be very firm with boundaries.

I see this at work a lot - I work with a colleague who is quite intimidating and the people we supervise wouldn't dare take the piss with her whereas I feel the boundaries get pushed a lot with me.

One example - I work on call shifts and am happy to help people out to swap if I can. People started to come to me first and I found it hard to say no - their gran was ill, child's birthday ( I'm a suckered for a sob story) etc so I ended up taking in lots of extra shifts. People didn't always repay the favour when I needed to swap and one CF even asked me to cover her night shift on the day I left the job (finishing early at midday) and was moody with me when I said no.

I have two kids now and one is so kind but struggles to stand up or herself. I am working so hard to help her develop boundaries and be assertive.

It'd taken me a long time to protect myself with boundaries. If you can do that, kindness and compassion will be your biggest strength!

GreyCarpet · 28/06/2024 06:57

My starting point would be that 'nice' and 'kind' are not synonymous.

Nice - generally prioritises not wanting to hurt someone's feelings, never wanting to say something 'mean', wanting too be liked, wanting to help regardless pf the impact on themselves. So someone effectively has to lie (to themselves and others) in order to achieve it or disadvantage themselves in some way (that's why it's seen as a weakness by some - a nice person will never say no).

Kindness - generally prioritises respect and honesty to both parties.

Imagine I am in a relationship (romantic, friendship, professional). I really don't want to be in that relationship anymore. I don't enjoy their company, they might be disrespectful towards me, I might just not fancy them anymore, their values don't align with mine, I don't think the service they provide is up to scratch - whatever.

If I were a 'nice' person, I would continue the relationship. I don't want to be seen as the bad guy, I don't want to want to hurt their feelings, I don't want to want to let them down.

But I grow increasingly resentful. In a romantic relationship, this might look like snide comments, no sex, irritation accompanied by guilt. No fun for either person. But I haven't said anything to them because I'm nice...

In a friendship, it might look like a slow fade - fewer phone calls, messages or catch ups. Leading too upset and confusion on the friend's part. Or ignoring my own feelings and just feeling irritated and annoyed by them. But I haven't said anything to them because I'm nice...

In a professional relationship, it might mean I know my windows aren't being cleaned but I pay them anyway, I don't like the way my hair looks but I've been going to this hairdresser for years and I feel awkward about changing. So I carry on. I have negative thoughts towards them and the professional service they provide but I carry on. I might moan about them to my friends or start a thread on MN to complain. But I haven't said anything to them because I'm nice...

However, if I were a 'kind' person, I would end the relationship. I would consider the impact of my words on the other person so I would do it respectfully and not with any intention of causing further distress. I would understand that people can feel upset or disappointed or angry without that meaning I have done something wrong.

We are both able to move on and find more satisfying relationships elsewhere.

Nice leads to people pleasing behaviours. Other people know that they are a pushover and will never say no, even if they want to. People lose respect for them because it's hard to respect someone who doesn't respect themselves. Nice becomes a weakness because it generally only goes one way.

A kind person has boundaries. They will help someone else if they have the capacity to do so but also feel comfortable saying no. Kindness goes both ways.

Skyrainlight · 28/06/2024 11:30

SheSaidHummingbird · 27/06/2024 23:55

@greenglassfull

Kindess is a strength.

Perhaps you mean being seen as meek and people pleasing as opposing to firm.

You can be both kind and set firm boundaries, for example:

"Thank you so much for inviting me to the event. I will have to decline this time, but I really appreciate you thinking of me."

Edited to tag OP

Edited

"Kindness is a strength"

Yes!! Completely agree with this.

NewName24 · 28/06/2024 12:57

TwattyMcFuckFace · 27/06/2024 23:57

My mum used to say

"Be thoughtful, be helpful but don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm".

I'm 55 now and I've pretty much stuck to that all my life.

Sounds like your Mum was a wise woman @TwattyMcFuckFace

Opencabinet · 28/06/2024 15:16

You definitely need boundaries - and they can be effective even if they are very giving. I mentioned earlier about deciding to love one friend unconditionally - which sounds very much an invitation to be walked over. In fact in this particular case it has the effect of providing a boundary - which has been clearly communicated. He has quite complex issues and there is anyways a risk of codependency. By saying I am just going to accept you and love you unconditionally I don’t have to get enmeshed in his complex life. It has given me distance (ie a boundary). I feel that boundary myself now and feel much lighter for it. It doesn’t mean that I’ll stand there and take a load of shit, just that I can provide an accepting space. Hard to explain.

I think everything is a strength if it is your choice. Whether it’s something very openly giving or something more cautious. The strength comes from within.

It has taken me a long time to be able to do this. I’m quite old now 😂 But the key for me was learning how to set boundaries and how to hold them. They can be kindly done though.

Viscoelasticity · 28/06/2024 19:11

greenglassfull · 28/06/2024 00:21

No I don't see it as a weakness but am genuinely confused by terms such as "kindness" and what it means in practice.

I am not living/working in an environment that I would describe as bullying or toxic - but appreciate others may be.

@TwattyMcFuckFace sums up how I feel and your mum must have been awesome

To me, kindness is similar to being considerate, and includes small acts of selflessness to help or please others.

Paying somebody a compliment. Taking their coffee cup to wash up with yours. Letting them have first choice of something. Taking time to genuinely ask them how they are. Helping with something, even though strictly speaking you don’t have to.

All examples of general everyday kindness in my book.

GreyCarpet · 28/06/2024 19:33

I feel that boundary myself now

When it comes to boundaries, this is key.

A lot of people say they put boundaries in place but many don't. For some people, boundaries are still about 'control' and/or why won't they accept my boundaries?

When boundaries are things we have in place for ourselves.

If you don't feel them yourself, they're something you're expecting another person to abide by and get upset when they don't.

Or they're unspoken and just assumed - I wouldn't treat someone like that. What is wrong with me that they do that to me?

A true boundary is something you feel. And something that you apply to your own life.

If someone doesn't share it/agree with it/respect it, the onus is on you to make the changes required.

You can't demand that someone follows your boundaries - just know what they are and respect them yourself.

If someone repeatedly disregards your boundaries, you remove them from your life.

Opencabinet · 28/06/2024 21:06

100% @GreyCarpet it took me a long time to realise that boundaries are about me, not others. We can’t control others (& we shouldn’t try). And that’s where kindness and niceness are strengths. Our choices - freely given.

Cornecopia · 06/11/2024 00:17

I think a lot of it is to do with boundaries. You can be a lovely person and still enforce boundaries. I think if you don’t do this then you may come across as weak

SoporificLettuce · 06/11/2024 00:18

Why do you care about how you look to other people?

BlackToes · 06/11/2024 00:32

Of course you can strike a balance. How you say difficult things really matters.its just a case of learning to approach difficult conversations in a way that focuses on positively moving forwards/upwards rather then bitterly dwelling on the past and negativity.

BlackToes · 06/11/2024 00:36

Every difficult conversation can be had with kindness and consideration and clear future expectations .

BetterInColour · 06/11/2024 00:37

Kindness is not allowing people to walk all over you. That's not kind to them as they don't learn their behaviour isn't ok! Kindness is treating them with compassion and with good boundaries.

I think you are mistaking kindness and niceness with being a doormat or having to do everything people ask. That's not kind to you, and that's not kind to them.

Plannedstrikes · 06/11/2024 08:05

Approach it from a place of a simple grid:

Passive — Assertive — Aggressive

Then simply decide the proportional response to the situation.

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