Is exDH name calling DS ‘banter’?

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At a GCSE info evening the other night, ex DH attended.

Afterwards, we had a chat with DS (year 10) about revision plans etc. DS was tired, bored and obviously didn’t fancy a lecture. For context he is getting good grades (7s etc).

During the conversation I noticed exDH call DS several names “dick”, “idiot”, “bellend” as in “c’mon you’re being a dick”, “stop being an idiot about this” “these are your GCSES, bellend”.

ExDH is educated but a “bantery” bloke: this kind of abrasiveness and funny-not-funny were part of the (many) reasons I left.

AIBU?

1. it’s lighthearted banter between father and son, nothing to see
2. parents shouldn’t speak to dc that way even as a joke

No wonder your son didn't want to talk to him after. Did he say that Infront of the teachers? If so how humiliating for your son (and awkward for the teacher). No that's not acceptable.
It's not banter to constantly run your child down.

Banter is always a two way or total group thing, where everyone is involved and on board. All/Both people bantering enjoy it, appreciate it, and feel comfortable with it.

If any party involved in the exchange is not comfortable with it, and anything unkind is it's directed towards them, it isn't banter. It's bullying.

People who enjoy banter enjoy it because it's a laugh and gives everyone high spirits. If anyone enjoys it despite knowing it makes someone feel awful (or rather because it does...), they're a bully.

People don't half like to excuse their bullying as "just banter" very often though.

So in your case, it rests on how your DS feels about it.

For me there's a difference between direct name calling and saying "don't be an X".

I wouldn't call one of my children a bellend. I have certainly said "Don't be an idiot". (My DC are similar ages to your DS)

It's belittling and must be upsetting to be on the receiving end of it. It's also old-fashioned (to me). It's something I remember hearing men saying to boys in the 70s and 80s. It was also completely unnecessary to say anything like that in that situation.

Not appropriate words. I get the banter aspect but those are adult words to use and quite unpleasant

Depends how your ds felt about it- and,crucially, how his father would react if your ds used the same language to him. Incidentally- I can imagine my dp saying "Don't be a dick" to ds. But not "idiot" or "bellend"

DH was frustrated with DS's attitude and used grown up (man to man) language to articulate it. DS is growing up and might even appreciate being treated like one, depending on the type of boy DS is of course. Was DS upset by it, or just you?

Typically teenagers are dicks. I'm sure he and his friends call each other worse when you are out of ear shot. I wouldn't be worked up about this if he was in fact acting like a dick. He's what 15 not 5

Agree with PP. Funny banter is a two-way street. Two people or a group ribbing each other, giving as good as they get and both/all parties partaking and feeling good about it. If that isn’t the type of relationship your DS and his dad have and DS isn’t into it and not finding it funny or seeing the funny side then I agree that it just seems like a big man belittling his son.

(edited as some of my comment wasn’t really relevant)

Really depends on the tone, was it was said playfully or aggressively? I very occasionally use this sort of language with my teen who I have no doubt uses similar language with his pals at school. It's jokey not nasty. But I wouldn't overdo it and probably wouldn't do it in public!
Was your ex trying to deliberately irritating or controversial around you do you think?

@Bumblebeeinatree makes a good point though, all comes down to how your DS felt about it

Its only banter if both parties think its banter, if one party feels hurt by it then it's being a bullying dickhead. I hate it when people pass off something hurtful as just joking/banter especially if they then double down and tell you your being too sensitive or blame you because you can't take a joke.

"Banter" is, 99.9% of the time, what people say to get away with bullying.

I hate the word and always call people out when they claim "is just bants" "it's banter, can't you/ they take a joke"

A joke is something everyone finds funny and is not nasty or malicious.
Banter is something some find funny but is usually belittling or humiliating someone for the amusement of others. Often someone younger, smaller or somehow disadvantaged who is too scared to fight back.

Ah, so glad I asked, these are really giving me perspective.

My DS is not a quiet wallflower, he's 6'3 and will give as good as he gets. So he'd probably say "YOU'RE being a dick" back to his dad, and the dad would either get angry or laugh depending on the day, but overall the whole tone is not malicious or abusive.

It was away from anyone, not in front of peers/teachers.

@Bumblebeeinatree nailed it - it was frustration and this is the only way exDH knows how to communicate. Also quite old school 'pull your socks up' etc etc.

I don't like it personally, I'm not a prude (and I work in language) but I don't particularly like hearing these words flung around. I also think this type of language/conversation is very basic and not conducive to getting to the heart of things.

But, your answers made me realise its not malicious, and I could probably ask next time for them not to use that language in family discussions/around me.

I don't like banter any way - it's a way of excusing unpleasantness and often causes hurt and resentment.

If your exDH is so well educated he should have had the vocabulary to express himself without resorting to childish name calling. He should be able to have a rational conversation with his own son. He is supposed to be the adult in the situation.

I think it's sad that you say your son gives as good as he gets. So he has obviously learnt this unpleasant behaviour from his father.

Dressing it up as banter doesn't excuse using language like that to any young person. How can it ever be beneficial or productive.

Personally don't find using those types of words/insults 'grown up', quite the opposite. I think it's old fashioned, negative and maybe detrimental in some situations. I'm sure DS will be fine, but it just has an unhelpful negative 'putting down' vibe (to me). Sounds like exe's frustration rather than constructive. criticism. IME talking in that way doesn't make a child/teenager (or adult for that matter) 'pull their socks up' but it could make them feel crap about themselves.

I think it seems like your son isn't gravely offended by the language. Saying don't act like an idiot is fine, but just tell him in public don't say stuff like 'bellend' or dickhead as it's bloody uncouth, lol. Tbh your son probably finds it quite funny, and he may call his dad the same. But yeah, not in public or near teachers/ school peers.

Unless your son can call dad a knob etc it's not idle banter

"Don't be a dick" is different to "you're a dick" because it's implying a temporary behaviour that is easily modified rather than an ongoing defining characteristic/ personality trait. Just saying "bellend" in that way is an insult- it's not challenging a behaviour/ attitude. It also undermines the serious nature of the conversation.

I wouldn't call this banter. Proper banter is between equals where there are boundaries and it is mutual. It sounds like DS is used to DF's insults and returns in kind. There is a power imbalance in the relationship.

Power imbalance means it’s not banter. I would not allow my dh to talk to my teen ds like this (not that he would anyway!) I have a 15 year old ds, I know how frustrating they can be, but the adults have to behave like adults, not sink to playground insults.

Banter is for bullies. Your ex is a wanker

@QueenBitch666 Yes he truly is a wanker! As you can imagine this sort of stuff was the tip of the iceberg. I left 6 years ago but try and co-parent as best I can.

@MissyB1 You put your finger on it - the adults have to behave like adults and I find sweary banter like this not only unpleasant but immature.

@Mothership4two that’s a good point about undermining the seriousness. Interesting that everyone picked up on the frustration, ex has a massive ego and can’t stand when he feels out of control, so the swearing will be for emphasis, and then it’ll be threats of (impractical) punishment (remove Xbox etc), and then ranting at me I have to “crack down” on him etc. I ignore it all!

A) I used to be a teacher and b) having the kids pretty much 100% has taught me that shouting until you’re blue in the face does nothing, it’s just a sign of your own loss of control.