To wonder if Private School parents think we can’t read?

[Captainmycaptains]

Work/volunteer in Education so following the whole VAT debate.

SM is full of private parent groups ‘organising’ to get the proposed VAT on fees cancelled - fine you would, wouldn’t you esp.if you’re used to getting your own way.

They’re advocating hassling local schools, councils, demanding stats and figures that don’t exist, wiring to MPs - telling people to ‘claim’ their state place to ‘disrupt’ the ‘system’ while also saying ‘ Obvs we won’t be taking Charlotte and Hugo out of school, we’ll find the money’ etc strive harder, getting granny to chip in’ but this might make the council ‘panic’.

Do they think that people in support of the VAT aren’t seeing/hearing/reading all of these plans???

the funniest one yet is the poster who said ‘ well going to claim our state school places then! See how they like that! We’ll going holiday, pay the mortgage down, shop at Waitrose and save £700k in the process, ha!’
I. no you aren’t 2. Okay - go for it! Who on earth would think £700k is worth it?? Behave like a normal person then…

YANBU - yeah, they’re noisy as expected but the rest of us are as think/ concerned as they seem to think. Also - it’s too late for Sept - waiting lists only…

YABU - applying for school places you have no intention of using is daft, and of course everyone can see what they’re trying to do.

If bursaries are cut, schools will have a lot more difficulty justifying that Charitable status.

This has been stated a lot by PE parents who are making claims about how this policy will impact the least well off.

There’s a lot nastiness on this thread and some really concerning misconceptions.

Out of my eldest’s class of 20, 2 are leaving due to the VAT proposal (the parents of 1 are a butcher and French teacher in the local state comp and the parents of the other child are a builder and self-employed journalist). No silver spoons to be seen. The kids are both really lovely, so are the parents. It’s sad that they’ll be leaving their friends. Seems to be about the same number of kids leaving each year (10%).

On the whole though, the proposal won’t have a wide ranging impact on those attending. A large group of us have just paid fees in advance.

“If bursaries are cut, schools will have a lot more difficulty justifying that Charitable status.“

Can’t they just do more community stuff/partnerships and actually reach far more state pupils that way? What is the obsession with bursaries benefitting just a few kids? Farming out their maths teachers in person or for online schooling may benefit far more state kids anyway. It’s the Charity Commission that regulates not anyone else’s opinion.

@WinnieWimbledon” On the whole though, the proposal won’t have a wide ranging impact on those attending. A large group of us have just paid fees in advance.”

Can the private school get really good current interest rates and keep all the profit tax free if it is a charity?
So the tax payer has already lost out because those parents would have paid 40 or 45 per cent tax on those savings?

It's that support which will make the real difference though, not the supossed 0.5% state school budget increase that this policy is potentially providing.
Schools get paid per pupil. My daughters village school has an average of 22 children per class, so their budget is lower, and their outcomes are amazing.
More money doesn't necessarily equate to better outcomes. Higher parental engagement equates to better outcomes.
So state schools don't need private school children to improve, they need effective management and engaged families.

Not really, because ( as far as I understand it) the school needs to be providing education charitably in order to maintain status. Stop providing bursaries and that is a lot harder to explain, the rest could be taken as good PR for a business.

Most of my friends at school did not come from mega wealthy families.

And, teachers don’t get to diagnose SEN/decide who gets extra time for exams, so that’s a ridiculous comment!

@Aladdinzane

If bursaries are cut, schools will have a lot more difficulty justifying that Charitable status.

You work in a private school - will it be reducing its bursaries?

No.

Apparently they think it will be from September 2025 and it will be a combination of a few minor cuts and parents paying some of the costs.

Thank you for answering my question.

That's not true - the law and guidance from the charity commission around what constitutes a public benefit is far more complex. Not all schools set up as charities offer bursaries.

Someone upthread (sorry I can’t find it now) expressed surprise that not all private schools were charities. This from the House of Commons library says only about 50%:

”In 2022 the Government said around half of independent schools in England were registered as charities.
More recent responses to parliamentary questions have reconfirmed the percentage remains about the same. The 2023 Annual School Census by the Independent Schools Council (ISC) found that 70% (978 out of 1,395) of their member schools across the UK had charitable status. However, not all independent schools are affiliated with the ISC.”

The charitable objects of my DC’s private faith school are the promotion of the faith that it follows. It does this by providing a chapel and parish centre which are open to the public. It does lots of other charitable things too including providing around 300 bursaries but it could meet its charitable objects without that. In any event, many schools could reduce the number of bursaries rather than getting rid of them altogether and still meet their charitable objects.

SEN provision in state schools is generally woeful and has been for years. As for the 'thresholds', they harm more than they help. you sound bitter an ill informed. Do you really resent children getting help denied to them in state schools that much?

I know its complex, but offering bursaries is a way that lots of private schools meet the conditions for their charity status and some may struggle to justify it if they didn't.

Gillian bloody Keegan was in the papers this week doing sad face photos with families at a fee paying school.

Nice to see that her priorities don't lie with fixing the broken system the majority of us have to put up with, but instead for supporting the tiny minority who can afford to avoid the crumbling education system the Tories have all but destroyed.

Bile, spite, bitterness, pettiness and prejudice spill from every pore of your post op. I haven't spoken a word to a living soul about VAT, although I think it is a hugely misguided approach, not have I considered moving my child, not for a millisecond. Wind your neck in and bore off.

The tax system we have is already a decent way to redistribute wealth , there isn’t a need to target a group of people in private schools who may or may not be wealthy . It’s a clumsy idea and divisive . It worries me as it just provides a precedent to target other groups of people , just randomly pulling ideas out of the air :so private health care users will fund the junior drs salary increases and anyone who can afford a private care home will pay for social care . Private pension owners will pay for people on basic state pension credits and so on . In a free society people should be able to spend their money as they wish once they’ve contributed to the common good ie paid their tax and national insurance and basic subsistence costs .

Tweak the 40 and 45% tax rates and you free up more money for schools / NHS or whatever else is needed. Tweak the personal allowance to help those right on the breadline

My biggest gripe with all parties is the lack of emphasis on climate change and defence . Both such a threat to society that it really won’t matter where the kids were schooled. However we are all busy arguing about private schools - deflection at its finest

If you tweaked the tax rates the threats would be even higher.

Even during this debate we've seen people threaten to leave the country, drop hours, and do XYZ in order to avoid paying VAT.

I have taught in both. They are really really not in for a shock.

The parents need to grow up. Such is life. Pay or move on.

Define 'rich' please.

IME there are the 'rich' and the RICH

Do we mean over the national average, over the child benefit threshold, over 100k, over 500k, or those for whom income makes no real impact on their decisions?

IME, many of those advocating taxing the 'rich' on their school fees are actually already 'rich' by the same yard stick. They just chose to spend their money in different ways, be it holidays, cars, etc.

For the truly rich, super earners, the VAT increase is a mere drop in the ocean. Therefore to say adding it to private school fees to ensure the rich pay their share isn't really levelling things out from the mega earners

@Mammyofonlyone it's irrelevant! If you are in a position to pay for private school fees than you are more privileged than the majority.

The majority of private school students come from households that are in the top income decile.

Many private boarding schools have children from exactly the same type of background.