To wonder if Private School parents think we can’t read?

[Captainmycaptains]

Work/volunteer in Education so following the whole VAT debate.

SM is full of private parent groups ‘organising’ to get the proposed VAT on fees cancelled - fine you would, wouldn’t you esp.if you’re used to getting your own way.

They’re advocating hassling local schools, councils, demanding stats and figures that don’t exist, wiring to MPs - telling people to ‘claim’ their state place to ‘disrupt’ the ‘system’ while also saying ‘ Obvs we won’t be taking Charlotte and Hugo out of school, we’ll find the money’ etc strive harder, getting granny to chip in’ but this might make the council ‘panic’.

Do they think that people in support of the VAT aren’t seeing/hearing/reading all of these plans???

the funniest one yet is the poster who said ‘ well going to claim our state school places then! See how they like that! We’ll going holiday, pay the mortgage down, shop at Waitrose and save £700k in the process, ha!’
I. no you aren’t 2. Okay - go for it! Who on earth would think £700k is worth it?? Behave like a normal person then…

YANBU - yeah, they’re noisy as expected but the rest of us are as think/ concerned as they seem to think. Also - it’s too late for Sept - waiting lists only…

YABU - applying for school places you have no intention of using is daft, and of course everyone can see what they’re trying to do.

Wanting to close a tax loop hole is not the politics of envy. It is the politics of fairness and equity

INDEED.

The lazy argument is that if you support the VAT you're either envious or a champagne socialist. It never occurs to people that it might all be to do with simple morals.

Like you, who is angry because of the lack of support for your child…but can’t understand why someone whose child was moved to private because of the lack of support for them in the state system would be concerned about a policy that means they can no longer afford that school and will end up back in a system that failed them previously.

Do they think that people in support of the VAT aren’t seeing/hearing/reading all of these plans???

In my experience a lot of those people are that self-absorbed they won't have even considered that any other opinion but their own exists.

Most aren't on first application anyway, it costs LEAs millions in appeals

It’s not a loop hole!

My dc are adults and went to state schools btw.

That's the same as the assumption that anyone who opposes the policy is a Tory.
That's the whole issue with this policy, it is divisive and Labour exploit that as smoke and mirrors from the real issue: they aren't offering any meaningful investment in state schools.

What a nasty post.

The state system failed my kids. We had no interest in, and no intention of sending them to private school. They have seen adversity, they were at state schools well into the juniors, we were invested in the school, helping in and out of the classrooms throughout their time there, but leaving the school and sending them to an environment where they could be better supported academically and pastorally was the right thing to do for them.

I have not applied for a place at a state school, nor will I do so, and there has been little to no discussion of it at our school. However, I can assure you that my children are not being raised to be "raging narcissists."

This is a stupid headline grabbing policy that will make little to no difference to children in state schools as it won't raise enough money. Deal with non-doms. Deal with tax breaks for the uber-wealthy. But don't demonise children.

Cards on the table: I am very middle class and went to a state school and then Cambridge. My parents preferred to spend the money on v generous house deposits for their children rather than private education. I'm not lacking in any way and am not particularly jealous of the privately educated, except that I suspect I wouldn't have been bullied there for being academic. Many of my friends are privately educated.
But I do think that it is all very well to have sat there placidly while fees rose and rose out of proportion with incomes, only then to suddenly notice the unfairness of this when a 20% rise might kick in. It does seem churlish! The reason people feel spite and resentment which they express in nasty ways is because 7% of people buy what they think is a better education for their children and 93% don't or can't, no matter how many sacrifices they make or how much they "scrimp and save". That's the reality of it. I don't get up in arms when people are upset that some people get large house deposits from their parents and express it in crass ways online, because I acknowledge that I am indeed ludicrously privileged in that respect.

‘Private schools are a luxury that largely have pupils with parents who are very high income. They do not need a tax advantage. They should pay the fees and any taxes due.’

Agreed. Having worked with Private schools as well as state ( they hate the term private by the way, much prefer ‘independent’ ) the parents overwhelming are high income and/or have family wealth. Yes even the SEN ones ( and frequently the definition of SEN wouldn’t come near the diagnosis threshold anywhere else but does get your child extra exam time).

That's great @RosesAndHellebores - your privately educated children can clearly see that the Labour policy may be a good one.

So you are proud of how rough some state schools are? That's an odd stance.

You have a very prejudiced idea of private school kids. I went to a state school and send my kid private as the state provision we were offered was a failing school. I wish I didn't have to pay thousands of pounds for her to get an acceptable education but that is where we are.

@Dancingonthemoonlight are you on crack or something? I come from poverty, when I say poverty I mean illiterate parents/grandparents, base base poverty! I can now afford to send my kids to Private School. You think they don’t know what the rest of the world is like? They find out when we visit my family, seriously get over yourself. You’ve been totally brainwashed.

Did the private schools you have worked with know how much you hate them when you took their money?

Schools will like having more bums on seats as they get more funding, especially London state primaries that are under filled classrooms but still have to pay the same salary to a teacher

I have a feeling that this poster is a name change, or they’ve set themselves up a new account……. I’ve read pretty much word for word on other posts. The wording is almost identical.

But surely you can appreciate that there are others in your same situation who can only just afford it now and who will need to pull their child when VAT is added because they can not suck it up?

I wouldn’t say parents of children with SEN in private because they’ve been failed by state are in particularly lucky circumstances if they are borderline not able to afford it and are looking at needing to pull their child when VAT is added.

Or is it that the state schools fail to diagnose SEN. My DC’s private school pick up dyslexia very early and those pupils go on to be some of their highest achievers…whereas my state secondary school teacher brother is always complaining about the number of pupils that arrive at his school from primaries that didn’t pick their dyslexia up.

I suppose it's easy to judge people who are reacting to a problem, when that problem doesn't affect you. For some people, this is a major worry and they are hitting out. This is understandable.

I am a private school parent, but have one already finished and one who will only be hit for upper sixth. It will end up costing me a bit of money for one year only - not much because my dc is on heavily reduced fees anyway and stuff like food and bus transport built into the fees probably won't be VATable. I have already started to mitigate this by cancelling stuff. So overall I will not be out of pocket.

I think it is extremely wrong and will lead to an overall decline across all education sectors. Tutoring will be on the rise. I might become a tutor myself.

Yes I feel that too and am reporting as a bridge dweller

I think they vastly overestimate their own impact, and the extent to which people care 😂 boohoo now you're poor, nobody cares.

There’s no way in this world I could have afforded to privately educate my DC, but I do feel some sympathy towards those who will
be affected. For the less well off families, it may mean that they can no longer afford it. These children will have to move to state, and likely only get a place in one of the not so great schools. For the better off ones it might mean that they can’t afford so many holidays or new cars or whatever, and obviously some super rich for whom it will be neither here nor there. But the fact is they weighed it up before enrolling their DC and decided whether they’d go for it based on the impact on their lifestyle. And now that will change, very suddenly.

I would imagine these parents are thinking of the impact on their children, whether it be them having to move schools or just have less nice things in life, and it’s understandable they’re not happy about that. It would seem fairer to me to introduce this for any new starters for private schools and then parents can make an informed decision from the off.

In fairness, the discussion is about Facebook groups. If you’re not interested don’t read/contribute. Same on mumsnet.

The fact you have chosen to read and comment suggests you do care.

We tried state education, it WAS disastrous for my SEND child. Private school parents are not disconnected from the state sector - most of us have or will use state education for some of our children at some point in their education.

I fully support revenue being raised and directed towards the state sector (and send support in particular) but this policy won’t do that in any meaningful way, and on balance I think it does more harm than good. My opposition isn’t just down to my own pocketbook, I genuinely think this is bad policy and a panacea for the masses rather than real, difficult reform.

I think its a good thing. Education shouldn't be a two tiered system. Indeoendent schools shouldn't have charitable status and they should absolutely pay VAT on fees.

Obviously I say this as a pleb. If I got rid of my flatscreen tv, netflix subscription, phone contract, made "sacrifices" and took in ironing I'm sure i would have a different point of view. Some people are so out of touch with reality it's embarrassing.