To wonder if every workplace has that person who is unsackable?

[Whistleblow2024]

Because honestly one of DCs workmates seems unsackable and I'm curious if this is normal.

They are constantly late, they don't care, they make regular inappropriate comments to others they work with but also in front of clients and at training sessions.
They ignore management frequently, which has resulted in incidents which could have become much larger.
They have left things in an area with clients that shouldn't have been there which again could have been more serious.

They also did something pretty major after being not to which again could have been very serious

Trying to be intentionally vague for obvious reasons but before I worked from home I remember people like this too!

So do you have a cheeky fuck at your work and what can they get away with

Yep. Public sector. Goes off sick every year the exact same time of year for six months. Makes a miraculous recovery when her sick pay drops from full pay to whatever it drops down to. Takes all her annual leave about a month later in one go. Then sits on her arse doing sweet FA for five months. Rinse and repeat.

Our line manager despairs but there's little that can be done without effort from HR / senior management etc. And then the same organisation claims it's in a budget deficit.

Once had a colleague who’d phone in sick the day after payday, every single month. Went on for nearly a year. I pointed it out and it never happened again…

Loads at my old place.
Massive organisation, notorious for it being unable to fire anyone - before I became management I presumed this was because the union had magic tricks up their sleeve and management were incompetent.
I then became management and discovered that it was that HR essentially didn't want the fight - they didn't train their managers at all on things like performance management and disability adjustments and how either of those things sit within employment law, which meant management didn't know what they were doing, which means HR were reluctant to bring cases forward as they knew management would likely have not documented/done something wrong, and then the person concerned would either raise a grievance, go off sick, or bring legal action. If you followed their own policy (which was actually incredibly generous and in favour of the individual and very careful to outline how you should look after someone's mental health while carrying out performance procedures) then you could get rid of people, but then HR would drag out signing off taking people to final stages and eventually people would just go off sick or documented errors would fall off their record as it happened 'too long ago' and the average error rate would then fall... never known anything more frustrating.
And don't get me started on the time we presented 8 different pieces of evidence (obtained through verbal and written work conversations, not fb posts!) that an employee was lying/making things up about their illness and needs... HR wouldn't even touch it. So they continued to be disruptive and obstructive and take up management time.

Yes, boss doesn't like conflict so won't deal with it, and also doesn't want the hassle of finding a replacement

My boss replied that she was a militant black lesbian single mother who had converted to Islam so how much publicity did the MD want? She kept her job

We have a woman in our workplace who is bone idle, can't do her job and doesn't even try. But when her boss tried to sack her, she marched into MDs office and told him that if they even try, she will go to press (household name company) and cry discrimination.

This was about 6-7 years ago, she's still there, being shuffled around between projects to find where she could do the least bit of damage.

I've encountered this twice.

Once in a factory where it was rumoured that the supervisor in question was blackmailing one of the managers and again in a restaurant where the two most useless employees were the daughters of the manager's friends.

I was an nhs manager for 5 years.
I had several tricky staff members in my Team - laziness, avoidance or manipulative behaviour the main issues. These pose a clinical risk and cause bitterness within the team.

As pps have said there are various strategies that people use to try and avoid being managed, such as claiming they are being bullied.
it is possible to ‘manage people out’ but it takes many many hours of work. Reading all relevant policies, going through every single required step. Prepping extremely well when there is an HR meeting usually with union rep (I actually welcomed the union rep being present as they ensure process is followed and there are no surprises or come back later that the manager should have considered clause 53 subsection A1 or whatever the potential loophole might be!)

After many days and weeks of dedicated record keeping, performance management and many many meetings, 3 people decided to move on. One (after a lengthy investigation into my conduct following her false accusations - none of which were upheld) decided to leave entirely.
Another decided to retire significantly earlier than planned, technically on medical grounds but really due to laziness.
Another moved on, sadly within the NHS still - this person complained in front of me during a meeting to their union rep ‘she can’t do that’ they said. oh absolutely she can said the Union rep, she is your line manager and is following the organisational policy.

Generally within my team I was respected, people understood that I had high standards for our service users. However it was exhausting, I became disillusioned that in many cases staff’s behaviour sometimes for years without being addressed had been allowed to continue. This disrupts the clinical work and the team morale.

I chose to return to clinical work 3 years ago which in comparison is like a walk in the park.

One colleague continuously late since joined for almost one and half years. For four hour shift 30 minutes brakes instead 15 minutes break. Always on the phone, but manager liked her. Didn’t learn all the aspects of the job or didn’t bother.

Previous job, I found that those who genuinely needed support rarely got it and were managed out. Those who were lazy, rude, and used policies to maximise fully paid time off were teflon coated. DDA abuse was rife. As a new manager, I tried stamping some of it out. The SLT was made up of 'besties' who were friends with the main offenders. I was in the firing line instead. I left.
Next job, an older man, obviously developing memory problems and caused problems, appeared to be Teflon, too. That was more, the manager not wanting to upset an established, well-respected staff member. Also, we had a young, lazy kid in probation, inexplicably passing it when he did minimal, and what he did was disastrous.
Moved on and I just do what's expected, no more, no less, give no more of myself than needed. It's not worth worrying for NLW.

I’ve seen this too in my previous company. There were several who were useless but got kept on like a pp suggested already, the company didn’t want the hastle.

The only time anyone got sacked was when they’d committed a crime. There were 3 instances where 3 different people were committing gross misconduct and should have been taken to courts for their offences but that was swept under the carpet to prevent negative PR. They got away with it so free to do it again in another company.

There are 5 of us in our department. I would describe 2 of them as unsackable. My manager hates conflict and also takes on the first person who sends in a cv instead of having a choice by interviewing.

We've just sacked one!
It was a careful plan that took a good 9 months to mature... the person has been here 5 years and has been pretty much useless from day one. Everyone is surprised as it's the first person in our department to get the sack ... I am NHS...

Yes it definitely makes a big difference to have astute and robust people in HR

We have one of those - always late, always on her own phone, does the bare minimum - in fact they don't even do that.

Yep! And it's because managers don't have any confidence managing anyone.

My former manager who's an abhorrent human being with an eye wateringly high staff turnover because of the horrendous working environment she creates. I am utterly convinced she has something on someone, because the way she treats people is vile.

When I first contacted my union for advice my rep said that two of the many examples I'd given her were sackable offences. Fucking bullying bastard wrecked my mental health and even now it still pisses me off that's she's still there, still being a bastard.

Yep. As per the last post, mostly senior managers who have somehow risen up the ranks and take the mick in every way possible. Of course there are some good managers but in general they have got worse and worse and way more incompetent since COVID. I've been utterly gobsmacked at just how bad some of the recent recruits have been and how arrogant and often downright nasty and spiteful. Where I currently work at least half of them appear to have a working age of about si, the playground antics they pull.

I'm glad I'm towards the end of my working life not the start or the middle or I'd be incandescent with fury on a daily basis as opposed to just weekly. I've always played by the book as I think it sets an appalling example to your team if you don't but I appear to be the only person at my level in the entire NHS that even knows where the book is...

yep
was caught several times masturbating in work. slept in the office rather than go home. drinking problem. and was absolutely lazy. I left 10 years ago and he's still there! Same office, another bloke who tbf was a nice guy but lazy as, was on sick pay for months due to a bad back, only came back reluctantly after someone dobbed him in from fbs photos of him at some sort of medieval re-enactment where he was wearing full armour and throwing a morningstar thing around all day!
would it surprise you to hear it was in local government?

Agree but there was no evidence. "She fell" I honestly have no idea how she got away with it but unforunatly is far from the only Prof I have heard of getting away with a variety of pretty horendous behaviour.

Sometimes yes. But I also think it can be more complex. For example if a new ish manager in the public sector goes into the the role seeing or believing that it is impossible to manage people (or even sacking them should this be necessary) they can quickly become complacent and take on the culture of the organisation they work for. And the issues just continue if that culture is unhealthy or unfair. It becomes a fake excuse ‘oh they’ve been here for years’ or they’re untouchable or whatever the excuse might be.

in my case I worked alongside many managers who couldn’t or wouldn’t manage effectively. In my case I am quite logical and realised that if there are policies on (for example) sickness management or performance management then these provide managers with guidance and authorisation. I was lucky that one or two of my peers were also logical, had high standards and we had good HR support so I could follow and learn from good examples.

All of the staff that moved on/were moved on, were dealt with fairly and professionally by me, even if they didn’t offer me the same professional courtesy. I also felt very strongly that I was responsible in my little area for being a good manager of public funds. Paying people for multiple episodes of absence/‘sickness’ for example - when they can’t actually do the job even when well is an abuse of public money.

@DancefloorAcrobatics
good work, I’m sure the decent people in the Team will respect you even more for dealing with the issues that you are being paid to deal with. It’s a tough job sometimes!

I work for the NHS in a patient facing but non clinical role. A colleague started in my team in January. So far she hasn't managed a full week as either has to leave eatly/not come in because of an apparent distraught (adult child) in crisis, lots of health appointments that seem to last hours, several periods of two weeks or more on the sick for various problems both with her health or one or other of her adult children. On top of that she has a lot of annual leave because being constantly on the sick means that she is able to claim her leave back. In her previous (similar) role for the same department last year she had over twelve weeks off in a 10 month period. She also has a pattern which is so obvious ie everytime she has a week or two weeks annual leave she will tag a week or more on the sick either before her annual leave starts or just as it ends. It honestly makes me really angry that she is allowed to get away with it and has started to make me feel like, why should I bother working hard and going over and above when colleagues like her are allowed to take the absolute piss.

I work with a few people,who in another job would have been out of the door

One lad is useless
He has autism,which explains a bit but he really takes the piss

Lazy-in our team of 5,he's the one that let's the side down by doing nothing,but thinks he's perfect (he just wanders round)

Lies about everything-he gets asked to do a job,doesn't do it and lies when asked if he has or tries to blame someone else

He tries to feel up the girls-he asks them out and if they say no,he follows them around and tries to touch them up,while begging them to date him

Wanders round,gawping at his phone (sackable offence)

Is rude to the customers-he'll think nothing of telling them 'to fuck off and die'

Is always taking toliet breaks-half an hour at a time

Will show up hours early or hours late-never on time (so say he's due to start at 12,he'll pop in at 9,but expect to finish at 5 rather than 8-which throws off the whole rota)

Wanders round telling the management how to do their jobs,while not doing his own

In his spare time,he's taken to following women and girls home (staff and customers)-endless complaints but the manager just shrugs it off

If you try and tell him to get on with his own job,rather than telling you how to do yours,your met with feet stamping,screaming tantrums

Work have put in so much support,but he just shrugs it off and tells everyone that he's perfect and it's us that is the problem

Because of his autism,he's unsackable but so many people have left because of him (giving his name as the reason they are quitting) and work still do nothing apart from 'have a word' (to which he ignores)

Another one is her mental health-you can't do or say anything in case you upset her mental health

She's now pregnant and doing even less work-i didn't think that was possible

We used the pattern of being sick before or after a week's leave as part of the disciplinary process with someone. You need a strong HR to back you on this.

Had one who was completely useless think watering plants in a tropical storm useless.

They also tried to run another member of staff over.

Eventually sacked for sleeping in the workplace car park some months after the murder attempt 🙄