UPF help

[UndertheCedartree]

I've been reading lots of threads on here about UPF and wanting to reduce the amount we eat.

I just got the ultra-processed people book and started to read it. I mentioned to my 17yo DS that xanthan gum is bacteria slime and he said well what do you think is in cheese and fermented products etc. So now I'm confused!

I know I'll learn more as I read the book but if anyone could shed some light on this for me, please! I'm going to need my 17yo on board if we're going to be able to reduce our UPF significantly!

What is xanthan gum in that you want to remove from your diet?

I think the way to approach this with a 17yo is to look at what you cook and what changes you want to make, and leave them to make their own choices around the periphery.

Bacteria in cheese and sauerkraut etc preserves and makes the actual food, so it's just processed.

Xanthan gum is a novel ingredient that is created in a factory unlike the above foods, and added to foods that don't actually need it to be that food. For example, ice cream without xanthan gum is still ice cream. Why it's bad is because it replaces real ingredients - instead of having a high fairy fat percentage in ice cream which is expensive, you an just have a cheaper ice cream and make it creamier with gums. There's a world of difference between a bacterial concentration that occurs in nature and one created in a lab then factory.

Well something like a cheese slice is an obvious UPF to me, or a spreadable sort of cheese triangle.

I wouldn't class mozzarella UPF, or any other classic cheese like cheddar, some cheeses might be processed but I wouldn't put them in the UPF category right away. Something can have ingredients added to become processed, but I wouldn't always class it as ultra processed in a way that I'd be concerned about the ingredients that have been put in (like random stabilisers / colours etc).

@UndertheCedartree what @CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment said which was perfectly put.

Xanathan gum is in Philadelphia, but not in most own brand cream cheese

I think being grossed out by slime is probably the least compelling reason to cut down on UPF.

DS is right that lots of natural, healthy foods are freaking gross when you think about it.

I would just do what the author recommends - carry on eating as you are while you read the book, then see how you feel at the end.

And I wouldn't worry too much about changing DS's mind at this point - worst case scenario, of course you can choose to put different foods into your body without DS's approval, and you can choose to avoid the things he still chooses to eat.

Plenty of families have all sorts of dietary requirements and lifestyles that don't align perfectly, so I think you're jumping the gun trying to get him on board before you've even finished the book. At his age, you might have to accept that your options will possibly diverge on this, but making changes to your own diet shouldn't be contingent on DS's approval!

Ah, right. So it's bad because it replaces real ingredients not just bad in and of itself.

I'm sorry if I sound thick but are you saying bacteria doesn't naturally produce this 'gum'? Why does it in a lab?

He's just refering to normal cheese that has bacteria in it.

Glad I don't eat Philadelphia! The thought of xanthan gum has repulsed me!

But microbes in my yogurt/cheese etc don't. Maybe they would if I looked into it too much! 😄

Yes I mean food doesn't naturally produce xanthan gum (or soya lecithin, or maltodexdrin) ie they don't occur in nature. Sauerkraut will make it's own bacteria with just some salt and time.

I agree with PP though that "bacteria" isn't bad - it's the industrial processing. Like some fats are good and some are bad.

It seems to be the premise of this first chapter and the idea that the 'ick factor' could put you off UPFs.

I read that but about 'eating along'. But not sure if that will work for me if he is going to describe things as revoltingly. I'd have to not look at the labels which I think defeats the point!

Oh and absolutely I don't need DS's approval for what I eat. But I don't like to keep unhealthy food in the house and we cook for each other and eat as a family. It wouldn't sit right to somehow leave DS out of this and have him unknowingly eating unhealthy food. And then having to cook separately for me and his sister. I much prefer for us to all try and maximise our health together.

Yes, I absolutely hear what you're saying about maximising DCs' health - I guess I'm probably a bit pessimistic from my own experience as it doesn't matter how much I explain about UPF to DS(21) and whether I stop buying the unhealthy stuff - he's at that age where he'll just swing by the shop and buy some biscuits or whatever on his way home if he wants to, regardless of what I think!

IIRC, I don't think the ick factor is too heavy in the later chapters, but I did find myself rolling my eyes a bit every time he went on about how gross it is, as most things are pretty gross. I mean, even vegetables grow in shit.

But yes, I found that I was starting to wean myself off a lot of UPF by the end of the book too - mainly because the description of what it does to your brain really resonated with me, and I think it also coincided with the rise of the whole "food noise" phenomenon that ozempic users describe, which felt like a huge epiphany for me.

Oh, I agree that's very frustrating! My DS is like that with fizzy drinks! Aside from that he's very healthy, though.

And yes, that's a very good point. I am quite sensitive to getting the 'ick' with food, I think. And although I rationally get what you're saying - the description of the xanthan gum really grossed me out! I wonder if he is deliberating trying to be like the Alan Carr book he mentioned!

That's great to hear the book helped you reduce UPF. I only heard about 'food noise' on here a week or so ago and I found it very interesting too. I'm looking forward to reading more of the book.

Yes, I know what you mean about the graphic descriptions though - someone once described to me how Quorn is made in graphic detail and while I sometimes still eat it, it did put me off - even now I can't look at Quorn without thinking about how it's made.

Bleurgh.

Did you use a knife to prepare your food or did you open a packet and heat something up?

Upf doesn't need a knife apart from to stab the wrapper open maybe.

Xanthan gum is a polysaccharide. It's similar to the carbohydrates that make up many foods. It's used as a thickener and stabiliser (it stops ingredients separating in things like sauces).

Calling it bacterial slime is like saying that yogurt is bad because it's made by bacteria. Or bread is bad because it contains yeast - a fungus!!!

I bought some xanthan gum a few months ago to play with. There are some chef videos online that show some interesting uses for it.

There's no evidence that it's harmful in itself. Its presence as an ingredient would indicate a processed food. But it's the other things in the food that are potentially more harmful if you consume them to excess.

Currently reading this book- whilst still consuming a fair amount of UPF!
But it is making me think - a lot.
Our whole food industry and what we eat / when / where / how etc is utterly screwed.

Oh gosh, don't tell me! 😂

Hmm...interesting different perspective. I'm still not eating the slime, though 😂

I think as others have said it is used instead of natural ingredients - like egg in mayonnaise as it's cheaper.

I'm glad you're finding it interesting. I think you may be right.

The NOVA classification is a helpful tool as well. I’m new here so I’ll try to paste it but have a Google if it doesn’t work!

Good luck with cutting down the UPF’s. Trying to do the same as far as possible here without going over there top.

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf