Honour, or Racist?

[Gattek]

At the Netherlands game against Poland, three white Dutch fans painted their faces, wore wigs, and dressed as former Netherlands international Ruud Gullit. This immediately caused a storm in the media and elsewhere with accusations of racism and blackface.

When asked about it, Ruud Gullit had no problem and said it was an honour. A current Dutch international, Nathan Ake, said today he didn’t see the problem with it.

So I suppose my question is who is right?

I admit that when I saw the photos of the fans I winced. My view is blackface is unacceptable and racist. However, the response from the players has made me wonder if it’s more nuanced - does the fact that it appears to have been done as an affectionate tribute to a legendary player matter?

Genuinely interested in peoples’ thoughts on this.

They are not imitating a group of people and generalising, they are dressing up as a specific person as a tribute, so I am going with honour.

Ruud himself is honoured, so that settles it, as far as I am concerned

No malice intended im sure, but its just not acceptable these days.

It died out with Little Britain and Bob Mortimer etc late noughties.

I imagine a lot of people will respond saying it’s racist, rather than ‘dressing up’. H it never, I cd an see it as dressing up if done for the right reasons.

Attitudes to a lot of things are quite different in The Netherlands compared to the UK. Zwarte Piet is part of their tradition and although many Dutch people have been opposed to it (especially in the 21st century), I imagine just as many are comfortable with blacking up.

I think that’s kind of where I’ve got to - it wasn’t malicious but just isn’t acceptable nowadays. I think I read that one of the fans has reflected and said maybe it’s time to retire the costume in future.

It's not a good look.

Blackface is tricky in The Netherlands since traditionally it's a blackfaced boy who brings Xmas presents (on 6th December - St Nicholas's Day).

It's more nuanced over there than it is in the UK or USA.

They are clearly honouring him. It’s only skin tone at the end of the day. They’re not mocking or stereotyping people with dark skin. They want to pay tribute to a black player by dressing as him and wear his shirt. I think to omit the hair and skin in that scenario would be problematic.

Ultimately I’m a white woman and my opinion is not the priority here. What does Ruud say? He says it’s ok. What do people with dark skin think about it?

Blackface is racist because it's part of a culture of mocking and denigrating black people.

Is that what is happening here?

Like you I would probably wince, but appreciate Ruud Gullit felt it was an honour, the dress up was context specific and clearly represented an individual rather than a homogenous “people” which seems different to me.

Genuine question - does this mean people can’t dress up as their idol if they come from a different racial background, or that they can if they ignore the skin colour/hair that may help make it clear who the tribute is dedicated to? Would no face make up and an afro wig be acceptable or deemed racist? Is it ok if a black person is doing the dressing up?

It’s a different country with a different culture? Different things are acceptable or tolerated. I don’t think this instance is racialist but I wouldn’t do it myself.
Interesting isn’t it that a country full of Caucasians a few hundred miles away from us are slightly different and not only are you surprised but you’re trying to enforce your own beliefs? (sort of). Believe it or not there are cultures even more different from ours in n countries more distant from the UK

I’m not enforcing anything on anyone. I’m expressing my thoughts / views on it, and wondering how others viewed it, in response to debate in the media about whether or not it was acceptable.

When Ruud Gullit played for Milan half the crowd were wearing Gullit wigs. They worshipped him!

I wouldn't be offended by this. I'm half Black, for context. What makes blackface so offensive is that it is dehumanising and reducing Black people to a set of exaggerated physical attributes. Merely dressing as someone who happens to be Black does not do that.

I am going to be honest rather than politically correct. I don't want to offend or upset anyone a and I respect other opinions.

I think there is a huge difference between blackface where white people dress as stereotypical other races...eg minstrels, Chinese with yellow paint and black eye liner etc

vs people dressing up as a specific person....and then how they present that person.

Comedians/impressionists in the 90s used to do impressions of all races....was it Rory Bremner who used to do Trevor Mcdonald? I don't think that was any more offensive that RB doing any white TV personality.
I am also pretty sure Kenny Henry used to where prosthetics to imitate different people or characters?

In someways I find that comedy fun way far less offensive than say when Zoe Saldana played Ninia Simone. It's not meant to be accurate but it's not mean spirited, it's loving.

So I am sad that we have this rule now that different races can't do things like dress up as a favourite character if they are of a different race especially if they don't have a costume to hook on to. And that it no extended into acting in general in terms of gender and sexuality.

Do we stop at blackface? Would Ruud Guilets hair be just as offensive on a blonde white person?

Nuanced - read: racist.

I've spend a lot of time in the Netherlands for many reasons and yes attitudes toward race their are starkly different from the UK or the US, indeed the UK and US are also very different.

Re the Blackface - take this football player out of it and consider if from another perspective - someone like Kemi Badenoch can earnestly say that racism doesn't exist in the UK and it's case closed: Racism doesn't exist in the UK. Except of course it does, so what you'll see here OP is selective understanding.

Kemi Badenoch saying there’s no racism in the U.K. is an entirely different (and irrelevant, in this context) perspective to one individual black person saying he personally doesn’t feel offended that some white people have dressed up as him. Kemi is trying to talk on behalf of all black people, which she doesn’t have the authority to do, and thus undermines their lived experiences; Ruud is talking only on his own behalf about something which concerns him - he isn’t saying that other black people couldn’t have a different viewpoint or experience.

The only opinion that matters here is Ruud Gullit's. If he isn't offended then neither should anyone else be.

It’s not acceptable in the uk. Different countries have different levels of what’s acceptable

They were dressing up as a specific person, who was black.
Not just "a" black person.

What’s wrong with dressing as a person of colour?
is there something wrong with having non whire skin?

White

I agree with this. He’s the person this is about, so if he was fine with it, it seems a little silly to be offended on his behalf.

It would be nice if society got to the point where blackface was such ancient history that it wasn’t ever an issue to dress up as a person of a different race in a respectful way.

Depends on how much value you hold on skin colour. If you don't care, it won't matter to you. I care about character and morals rather than skin colour. What you described sounds like honour to me, but there will always be people who have different sensibilities. There have been plenty of people who've painted their faces black for different reasons. Justin Trudeau did. I'm surprised Prince Harry didn't around the time he dressed as a Nazi.

I’d let Ruud Gullit decide.