Being a primary school teacher is INCREDIBLY HARD or AIBU 🫠

[BoneTiredandWired]

Today alone as a teacher I have: Intervened in three fights. Had multiple restorative conversations. Given up both my break and lunchtime to sort out arising issues. Unexpected fire alarm chaos. Taught music and German and had a real laugh with my class. Saw real positive developments of my kids abilities. Shortly later spoken seriously and told off my class.
Dealt with multiple crying children who don't want to leave my class next week. Sang and coordinated our summer concert songs.
Written the last of 28 individually written reports for all my kids.
Tidied up and emptied my entire classroom.
Had a 2 hour after school meeting.
Cried on the way home out of sheer emotional exhaustion and having to be strong carrying the emotions of so many throughout the day.

I ❤️ my kids so so much, but teaching is HARD and so so much more than people think it is

@OodlesPoodle I have a DH in emergency services and agree with almost everything you're saying, however the days when we had other services to call on are LONG gone.
Seeing social work is like seeing a unicorn. CAMHS have shut their doors. No counselling services taking referrals. And the parents? Well I refer you back to all the things you said about adults being complex and problematic. The parents come to us because they can't cope.
None of this is me saying teachers have the hardest job, they don't. But I just don't think people understand the current climate they're working in.

@OldChinaJug

And to re-iterate the example - DH got called into a school because a 11 year old girl was acting up and getting violent. He had to calm her down, get her out of the classroom, make sure the teacher and other students were safe. Then turns out the girl was being sexually abused by an older student who was posting videos of her online. DH stayed in contact with her for the 2 years it took for the case to go to trial checking in and listening when she needed it. She had school counsellors, a therapist, her parents and my DH who supported her throughout - dealing with all the complex feelings she had.

She was only ONE of the 10 similar cases DH had that month in the various schools he covered. So I cannot accept that a teacher is solely responsible for the welfare of children.

And this wasn't even his day job.

OK well the PTA are fundraisers for additional things for the school, they dotn offer in class support. I haven't had a TA for 5 years. There's culture in schools of not involving the police (which I disagree woth) but a lot of that is around building relationships woth parents to keep the childen in school where they are safe. Social services ae overrun amd only the very 'worst' of our families are involved. There is no CAMHS support. We haven't had any referrals accepted by CAMHS for a long time. There are no other external agencies. The external agencies I refer to are SEND related where parents are desperately trying to get assessments/diagnoses for children or fighting for support in school. It's largely fruitless.

Yes, the children are sent home to their parents. In some cases, that is the problem.

And you're really arguing apples and oranges here. It's not about wherever it's harder to work with children or adults. The bottom line is the only thing I'm measured on. The only thing my performance management relates to, is my ability to teach the children. My ability to get through the million and one objectives and my ability to get children to the expected standard.

That would be a lot easier to do if the support you claim is there was actually there, was effective and let me get on with actually teaching.

I'm not interested in arguing with you or anyone else. And I don't think anyone is suggesting it's harder than what you or your husband do. But so many people are insistent on arguing with us because 'working with childen is easy' and, if we were 'cut out' for it, there'd be no issue.

Yes, I'm aware because the police, at least in London are now expected to provide a lot of the support. After mental health services were cut, all these calls get routed to police. That's why they have schools officers now who have to co-ordinate the response - all on top of the targets they have in their individual units for crime reduction.

@OodlesPoodle that’s the problem there aren’t enough other services to help these children, so much falls on schools.

I bet your DH sees the same vulnerable people over and over again because there is so little support for them from external agencies. Schools are the same when dealing with young people.

So they can have a suicide risk teenager with no external support. They will contact all the relevant agencies but they are so stretched they will just be added to a 2 year long waiting list! In the meantime schools will do what they can with no additional funding.

Mental health issues in our young people are rocketing and there is not the support they need. And that will have a knock on impact on your DH and his colleagues as these children get older. We have instances of self harming in Primary schools, it is heartbreaking

So other services being cut or over stretched the only people these children or the families see are staff in school and they do the best they can. But schools aren’t being given funding to be able to buy in services even if they are available

I can well believe that.

But he wasn't also trying ro break in the door to a drug den or calm a domestic violence situation or arrest a shoplifter at the same time!

Presumably, he was able to do one job at a time? You've already said he removed that child from class. I don't have that option except in very serious instances. I have to carry on teaching at the same time.

That's not to say it's easy, the emotional impact of that on your husband and the follow up work would be gruelling. I completely understand that.

But that's the difference. I can empathise with your husband. I get that that would be a hideous situation to deal with that the emotional/mental impact on him would be huge.

You don't have the same level of understanding/emapthy towards teachers though.

But so many people are insistent on arguing with us because 'working with childen is easy' and, if we were 'cut out' for it, there'd be no issue.

'People' are arguing with you because of the constant posts that completely ignore all the other professions who also deal with the same children. There isn't a scale where one job is harder than the others - but the constant moans about how hard teaching is, is just ridiculous. There isn't a mass movement against teachers. No one is going on protests against teachers. No one is asking you to justify it. It's hard, everyone gets it - but the notion you somehow carry more responsibility than all essential service providers to children is not true.

For children with SEND the picture is awful. Application for EHCPs are tortuous. What should legally take 20 weeks now takes over a year in our area with the LA pretty much saying they are rationing them as they have no money or staff

What do schools do in the meantime. Muddle through, taking flack from parents as again they are the only institution these parents see they take their frustration out on school.

200 children needing a place in the local Special school which only has 10 places left. And the school isn’t actually local for most of these children. If these children are currently in mainstream school they will be taking up scarce resources in schools (not their fault)

Excellent post!

@Hellodarknessmyfriend I am very sympathetic to that, but I'd imagine the school holidays are an opportunity to connect, whereas most working parents are seeking out holiday clubs etc. So, you lose in some ways, but gain in others?

But he wasn't also trying ro break in the door to a drug den or calm a domestic violence situation or arrest a shoplifter at the same time!

Presumably, he was able to do one job at a time? You've already said he removed that child from class. I don't have that option except in very serious instances. I have to carry on teaching at the same time.

No, but he did have to deal with the crowds outside yelling abuse because they thought the team were arresting another black girl. There's a video on tik tok and DH had to show his body worn footage to the chief to ensure it was by the book. He did have to drop the child off at hospital to get checked out, go and do another arrest enquiry, then go back and check on the child. Then back to the station to write up a report. Then back out to support a team called to someone threatening suicide where he had to physically restrain them . While also having to answer questions from his team on another arrest they were doing elsewhere. Then spend his day off the next day completing all the reports. Do you really think the police have the option to deal with just one case a day?

But that's the difference. I can empathise with your husband. I get that that would be a hideous situation to deal with that the emotional/mental impact on him would be huge.

Great, next time you deal with the police, thank them for the tough job they do and how you can't imagine what it's like.

You don't have the same level of understanding/emapthy towards teachers though

Maybe because the police and my DH aren't asking for your empathy and understanding by posting how hard their jobs are? Maybe they just get on with it and don't solicit sympathy/empathy as you have...

@OodlesPoodle are you ignoring what posters are saying that many children cannot access these services.

Surely your DH as school officer knows that too. The girl in your example was ‘lucky’ to have school counsellors and a therapist. Other children in equally awful circumstances won’t have access to these services as they are so overstretched and schools won’t have funding to buy them in anyway. They just get added to a myriad of waiting lists, or if ‘lucky’ they get a 10 minute brief counselling session.

Instead of people berating teachers they need to be listening to them to understand the shit show that is education at the moment, for the sake of our young people. If your child is happy at school, with no issues you may think everything is rosy. But for many children it isn’t, and you may only find this out if circumstances change and your child suddenly needs support.

Im glad you've acknowledged the impact on the police and other services. It is sad that I had to bring it up in the first place for this to be factored into the conversation at all. I would have hoped teachers could recognise the added burden to all their supporting professionals, some of whom do have it a lot harder - but glad this thread is now a more accurate depiction of the situation.

@OodlesPoodle issue is if teachers don’t bring it up many people don’t have any idea unless they are battling the system themselves. And let’s face it many of those families will be concentrating on their child and won’t have enough mental strength to fight for other families. So someone needs to say something. But teachers bring it up and they get told be grateful for your long holidays and if you don’t like it leave.

Where does this leave our young people?

Nope, I do know many schools cannot access these services. But adults can't access mental health services either!! Every job relies on people you look after or manage doing the job they should so you can meet targets.

In my team, if someone has depression but cannot access or afford treatment- it affects their work, it means I need to provide some of that counselling to just get then through the day. Check in regularly and even visit as my duty of care and in some cases HR policy. And I can't remove them from work so I just have to deal with it. Line managers have a duty of care in every job. And like parents put pressure on you i get pressure too from my bosses and customers. I can't use the lack of mental health services in this country to justify poor performance either.

It's the same with kids - you have a duty of care and it sucks when you can't get the support you need. But it doesn't make the job any harder than any other dealing with human beings.

@OodlesPoodle I’m not a teacher by the way, just have a role that takes me into school. And I am seeing schools creaking at the seams.

And maybe teachers are not expressing if the right way but it needs to be shouted from the rooftops how difficult it is in schools, because these are our young people, our future, and so few people are listening.

They will see the headlines that Labour are going to recruit 6,500 new teachers. Well firstly that isn’t going to replace the 40,000 that left last year, and secondly teacher training places aren’t being filled by a long way now, so who are these 6,500 going to be? Bug voters will just see Labour doing a good thing, but it doesn’t mean anything and it’s just words and completely worthless, unless other things are changed.

Maybe they should complain too.

Unless we know what problems at lot of people are facing and how common they (or not) are we can't begin the fix systemic problems.

If so many people experience similar problems, and to the extend they want to leave, should we not try to improve the situation to make these professions more attractive?

If problems are indivual and not a lot of people experience them, then invidivual solutions will suffice.

My point is that we will never know unless we talk about it and work to improve things. Right now, at lot of people don't talk about the problems they face and just quitedly leave for a different career, leaving a shortage of people in their wake.

we've also had a variety of trauma training so that we can support children because it's recognised we are now doing more of that than ever before.

It's right that teachers get trauma training because early trauma seriously compromises children’s ability to learn and changes the way they process information. In my experience both as a social worker and adoptive parents, schools are woefully lacking understanding of the impact of trauma on children which in turns means vulnerable children tend to have an awful time at school.

@Jellycatspyjamas yes it is important that school staff get trauma training so they can be supportive in the right ways but where needed external experts should be involved, but as a social worker I am sure you aware in many areas they are not available.

In schools there is a joke about if a child hurts themselves put a wet paper towel on it and it will be fine. However, obviously if a child seriously hurts themselves they will need expert medical help, no wet paper towel is going to fix a broken leg. But where mental health issues are concerned many children are just getting the equivalent of the wet paper towel

Where has a teacher said their job is harder than everyone else’s?

the fact so many leave to do other jobs and don’t return speaks volumes.

of course other jobs are also hard. Being a police officer sounds exhausting.

many jobs can be hard. Like the police, teachers deal with unpaid overtime, safeguarding issues, violence against them, children with terrible home lives including domestic violence and neglect, managing teams etc. never time for a cup of tea or a wee. Most teachers do take it in their stride like your DH. But when they dare talk about it and the impact it’s having on the pupils they teach, people like you jump on them and call them complainers with no resilience or capability.

by the way, teachers don’t spend all their time working with children. They obviously spend a huge amount of time working with adults too…

love your assurances though that working with adults is so much harder. And that our kids move on after a year….they’re in secondary school for up to 7 years. Oh and they have parents to support? Okay. I’ll tell the looked after child I teach that then.

Please don’t make statements about our job that are incorrect while berating us for talking about the negative aspects of teaching on a post about teaching.

I spent 2 hours at a 6 year old‘s birthday party yesterday and by the end was ready to put my own kids up for adoption so I’d say you’re defo not being unreasonable!

It isn’t sad that you had to bring it up to begin with. This isn’t a thread about the police. The OP is about teaching. It isn’t sad that a thread specifically about teaching talks about teaching…

of course teachers recognise the burden on their fellow public sector workers. No teacher on this thread has said their job is harder than a police officer, nurse, doctor etc. but this is a post about teaching so we can respond with our experiences of teaching without needing to ensure ‘an accurate description of the situation’ whatever situation it is that you are referring to. Teachers already have a huge amount of empathy for other public sector workers like your DH- it’s not like your post is some kind of light bulb moment.

what you say about your DH job sounds exhausting. If the police are experiencing the impact of lack of funding and services then they too need to speak up. Taking it in their stride and accepting the dire situation they’re in won’t help anyone.

All public sector workers dealing with the shit show from the last 14 years of Tory rule need to shout about it. Nothing will change if we don’t and the futures of our kids will continue to go downhill. We will keep highlighting the issues because we give a shit about the future of education. Even if we have to put up with people like you berating us for it.

Anyone who tries to pit public sector workers against each other instead of acknowledging the common issues that they all face which are caused in a large part by a government who have, over the last 14 years, systematically underfunded, overworked and talked down those services, is a twat.

Reading this is both enlightening and depressing.
I knew that teachers were being expected to pick up the slack for MH services, safeguarding etc because the services are spread so thin but I hadn't properly thought through how cuts to all public services are impacting others. (Education cuts and lack of resources will impact other support services I imagine)

So improvements to education can't really be made in isolation unless more funding and resources is also put into other services as they are so inter-linked.

I cannot fathom why teachers think their job is much harder than anyone else's? So many posts here regularly. DH is police.

I cannot fathom why grown adults do not have the intelligence and comprehension skills to understand that 'I find my job hard' or 'There are lots of things about x job that makes it really hard' do not mean 'Other people's jobs are not hard'. Nobody is saying this at all. Did anyone (ever on MN, never mind on this thread) say being a teacher is harder than being a police officer? Of course not. Should posters (in any hard job) have to name check all other hard jobs every time they post about the difficulties in their own? Of course not.