Care home fees

[Dementiadad]

I want to preface by saying I have no issues about paying care home fees...

however...

my dad has dementia and until a year or so ago was just about managing to cope at home with carers coming in three times a day for an hour a time. He lives alone as my parents are divorced.

Last autumn he started wandering and getting lost. We got a tracker and for a long time my sister and I would find him and bring him home. We kept on at social services for help as we were exhausted from it - his last care call was at 9pm and often he would go out again afterwards. No help was forthcoming, we were told just to call the police. The police were involved on numerous occasions, each time they refused to take him home as he would be alone and they deemed him at risk and so we would have to go get him/ have him dropped to our houses (where he cannot stay long term for several reasons). Social services still maintained he was capable of living at home and would not agree to him going into a home unless he agreed (which he would not as he has no clue what is going on). We were basically on our knees begging for help but got nowhere.

It has just got worse from there culminating in him getting lost in torrential rain in May, no tracker on, social media, police all looking for him - he was found bloodied and bruised from an apparent fall 6 miles from home a day later and taken to hospital.

The hospital refused to release him home, he was kept in for a week before it was decided to move him into a home. Social services found a place and he has been there 5 weeks.

He now moves into self funding as he owns his home and has some cash savings. His income is £18k a year pre tax.

I have just received the form re financial assessment. The letter attached says the home has been charging the council £650 a week. My dad will be charged £1,700 a week as a self funder.

I asked why the difference and the home basically said that is all the council will pay and they charge self funders more to make up the difference.

We looked around at other homes, pretty much all in the area charge the same and he is settled now and so I don't want to move him.

I am disgusted by this. Not only will all his savings and home be gone within 2 years or so we then have to hope that the council will let him stay there - the care home says it will all depend on whether they have any council places when the money runs out. I hope that because the council moved him here that they will agree he stays here (the risk of moving him is that they say we chose to go elsewhere).

I just don't feel it is right - that dad is not only paying for his own care but also doubly subsidising those with council places (he still pays tax)? If the fees were £1,200 a week (which is probably nearer the true cost) there is a better chance of him outliving his money.

AIBU? The council should be paying the true cost and not making the unlucky ones pick up the tab?

There are care homes run by charities who have to reinvest profits

For example

https://www.stmonicatrust.org.uk/care/care-homes

Homes can be charities as well as companies. To assume that homes with a charity number are somehow more moral than ones that aren't is incorrect and misleading. They'll still be making a heck of a lot of cash before reinvesting some profits. Its all smoke and mirrors.

I have not been recommended any near us, but will have a look.
Thank you and also @Theeyeballsinthesky, perhaps there is something available.

My husband and I have signed a declaration at the GP for DNR as we object to being kept alive artificially for the care homes to make their obscene profits. The suffering that is taking place is inhumane. Far more dignified to go when our time is up. Can’t understand people being frightened of this.

Trying to get continuing care is virtually impossible - the forms are a million pages long and the local authority keeps sending them back with questions and queries and the person stays in their hospital bed despite being medically fit.
Fast track is often more successful but have to show short life expectancy

I understand that but they are clearly taking the mickey - care costs should have regulation, like energy and water (although maybe not a good example currently!) - it is a necessity and not something people choose.

Neither my aunt nor my husband's aunt, both of whom had dementia, received continuing healthcare funding for their care home fees.

They were in similar positions. They both owned their own home, neither had married and both had occupational pensions, a state pension and some savings. Both were entitled to attendance allowance when they moved into their care homes

My aunt's home was sold to finance an annuity. When she died there was virtually nothing left.

My husband's aunt's home was let in order to increase her income. That turned out to be a much better solution. The rent didn't cover her fees, but it meant that her savings lasted longer. When she died she still had the house and some savings.

I would definitely look into letting your father's flat, especially if it is London, where rents will be higher.

My mum spent six and a half years in a care home run by a charitable trust. She was self funding and when her money ran out after four years the council put a charge against the house which we paid off after she died and the house was sold. She died in 2016 so everything will have gone up since then.

Successive governments have simply failed to address elderly social care and it's in crisis. If I need care I fully expect my house to be sold to finance it but as people live longer with conditions such as dementia the crisis gets worse.

The problem is that the LA would not keep dad in a self funding home once his money runs out and so he would have to be moved. I think if you have sufficient assets and/ or an annuity it is a good plan.

I’ve just had my financial assessment from the LA in England. Mum was in a care home for six months up to her passing two weeks ago.

Mum was fully funded because she had no house to sell or any assets. The weekly fees were £722 per week. The council assistance was £580 per week therefore we had to use her state pension to make up the shortfall.
I have to say felt sorry for most of the residents who had to pay using their savings or assets to pay their bill. One lady I was speaking to was very worried what would happen to her as all her money had run out. I hope she was allowed to stay.

Just going through the same with my lovely FIL
We found the advice on the AGE UK website to be really helpful.

Make sure you look after yourself through this

Have you considered a live in carer? My Gran had these and they were fantastic and allowed her to stay in her own home, we were told by my Grans neurologist that dementia patients did much better being able to stay in their own home.

Have a read of this, its all about fair cost that councils will pay. It'll not come in for a long time, but the point is for councils to pay care homes fairly. Can guarantee when it does come in that homes will still charge more for self funders, simply because they can.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/market-sustainability-and-fair-cost-of-care-fund-2022-to-2023-guidance/market-sustainability-and-fair-cost-of-care-fund-2022-to-2023-guidance

I totally get where you are coming from. My mam was in a care home for 5 years. We did get NHS funding for the last 18 months, but by that point she could literally do absolutely nothing for herself.

She was in the minority being a self funder and it does stick n your crop somewhat that people in the same home, getting same care etc were not paying.

I’m so sorry you find yourself in this position. It’s a horrific disease x

I understand @Dementiadad but that is where we are.
I don't think it is as cut and dried as you are subsidising the people who have nothing - which effectively is what my mum has.
But it's why we should be looking at taxation and national insurance to find a way to better fund our elderly parents' care, so that it does seem more equitable.
It does come down to who has the most assets at the moment, and you may think that your dad has done well to provide himself with a pension and a home, while my mother has been a skiver her whole life.
I don't know about your situation, but my mother has spent her whole life caring for others, her own mother, then her father, her disabled daughter (my sister) who sadly died 3 years ago, which has been the catalyst for the changes in her since then.
She's had no opportunity to hold down a full time job, provide for herself and create an asset (house) which we could now sell and get the best care that she really needs. And she is only 72 so we could have many years of this!
I am grateful that we are able to access council funding, because that will help a lot, but we are going to have to find a few extra hundred a week - we are a big family so will share that burden, but it just seems a pity that successive governments have failed to address this.

All a DNR means is that CPR will not be attempted in the event of your heart stopping. I’m afraid there’s no get-out clause for other illnesses, including dementia, which lead to the living nightmare which so many elderly people have to endure at the end of their lives. There may be some who would choose life, come what may, but I dread spending my last years helpless in a care home. A DNR won’t necessarily prevent that happening.

Self funders are always propping up the system, you get the same room, food, care, activities and staff. It causes real bad feeling but councils need to be given the money so that all residents pay the same. You can apply for funded nursingcare and attendance allowance which helps with the cost but it is avery unfair situation where there are mixed funded residents.

There is a conversation about dad's flat - it's ex council. Would rent for about £1k a month (I think) which, after tax, wouldn't cover even a week of fees.
His LA have a buy back scheme for ex LA flats and we are exploring that as his cash will run out by about September. Otherwise, yes the council will put a charge on it until we can sell.

I really don't care about the money all going - he was using his savings to pay for his home carers anyway as attendance allowance only covered about 1/5 of the costs and he doesn't have a huge pension. we really tried to keep him at home for as long as possible (he grew up in that flat) but we could no longer keep him safe.
I just don't want to have to move him because of the screwed up way we pay for care homes.

Sorry @Dementiadad I wasn't trying to have a dig at you, just in case you thought that, just giving an explanation for why my mum has no money

@MissMoneyFairy
So what would you have the poor folk do?

There would still be care homes. Dont think for one moment that self funders are subsidising council funded beds. It's marketing to cause division and encourage council to pay more. Otherwise there would just be smaller care homes exclusively for self funders.

Are you paying a third party top up for your mum at all? thats another racket people need to be aware of.

@Dementiadad I agree, you have done what I would do because it’s what is best for your Dad. I was just responding to the person who thinks it’s the same as paying tax.

The council need more money, the carehomes need to lower their rates so everyone pays the same unless they are charged more for things like ensuite or a double room. Alternatively you have council only or private only homes but that won't happen until more money is put into the care sector, staff wages and more council run homes are built.

This! My Great Auntie was very similar, she didn't wander but she issues. Just no chance of her living alone, and was moved into a care home after an emergency situation. She ended up getting I think all of her care funded due to something called "continuing care". All residents need to have a care assessment, and it was the staff who suggested we apply further to the NHS or council or whoever it was for this extra funding. She had her own home and a significant amount of money in the bank but once the funding has been agreed it wasn't touched. @Dementiadad ask about the "Continuing care checklist" and don't be fobbed off.

I think it’s very unfair that the cost of care will eat up practically all your assets, I think it’s down to somewhere around £23,000. I agree that those with money should contribute towards care, but taking a percentage or a set sum seems fairer.The Tories were talking about this but as with so many difficult issues, it got kicked into the long grass. I’ve worked since I was 17, as has my DH, and we would really like to think some of the results would go to our children and gc. I’m sure that many people with absolutely no assets have been unfortunate or worked for low wages, but I’m pretty sure many have just spent and never saved. I have examples of this in my own family.