To think people don't use public transport as its so unreliable

[Outandabout43]

Have drove for the last 15 years so not really used public transport, however since moving area and now in walking distance to a train station have started to use this more.

It's actually cheaper to use the train to visit family if it's just myself and DD then it is to drive, and also takes an equal amount if time. Also cheaper to use the train into city centre then to pay for parking.

However, everytime I use the train, the train is either cancelled or delayed meaning we miss the connecting train and have to sit and then wait over an hour which is not fun with a 3 year old. Also nearest bus stop into the city is a 40 minute walk away.

Now I actually prefer public transport to driving, but not so much when an hours journey ends up taking 3.

We are being encouraged to use public transport more, but is there any wonder people don't.

Do you not think that the experts considered all options before recommending this one?

The former Great Central route would have been no use. A more direct route between Rugby and Nottingham perhaps, maybe it might serve Sheffield quicker, but it wouldn't serve Birmingham at all and would be a very long way around to get to Manchester - London to Manchester is the most profitable flow in the UK. It would certainly be no use for anyone trying to get between London and Glasgow, a route where trains are consistently busy and which needs faster journey times and cheaper fares to compete with short-haul flights. You can't cut fares until you increase supply.

I think experts are overruled by vested interests, especially when it comes to money and back handers. Certainly something needed to be done about the WCML. Thing is, though, that the trains north of Preston/Lancaster are pretty empty and don't really justify the frequency and train length. I live near Lancaster/Preston and journeys to Glasgow/Edinburgh are my most common train journey these days - unless there've been earlier cancellations/delays, they're usually pretty empty with plenty of room. The London<>Scotland Avantis mainly served more Southerly stations and particularly Preston where they all stop (crew change). Not sure what the answer is, or whether the trains should even try to compete with air travel between London and Scotland - will they ever be faster/cheaper to compete - I suggest not.

@Disturbia81 there is an outer ring bus service here which is rubbish - buses hardly turn up and when you do, you realise its more quicker to get a bus in and another bus out.

This why I hate the ulez. I’d rather be using public transport, I don’t need forcing. Just give me working options that don’t require hours of my day. And before anyone says ‘London public transport is fine’ it’s really not in outer London. A ten min drive can be a forty min wait for buses that never turn, stupid routes that take half an hour. There’s only connections that go to the centre and out, everything else is crap. I know there’s far worse, but it’s doesn’t mean I have 4 hours to spend every day on two trips to someone 10-15 min away by car.

The worst thing I did was to catch a train to Sheffield to Leeds and it stops at every single station in between and diverts to Castleford. Took 2 hours when VT just stops at Wakefield Westgate in 25 mins.

So if Sheffield or Leeds trains mentions Castleford - don't even bother.

The government can incentivise all they want. They could offer me £100k and they would still have to take my car away from my cold dead hands.

Public transport works best when its all coordinated and frequent.

It can be cheap and comfortable, but if its going to take you 2.5 hours to travel a journey that would take 45 mins by car, people are going to take the car every time.

Where i live trains into london are good - fast etc & definitely better than driving. For anything else locally the buses are slow, infrequent & expensive so we don't use them.

Get the journey time down to below four hours and rail does start to out-compete air travel. Airports (particularly those favoured by the cheap airlines) tend to be located in inconvenient places and the security requirements are tedious. So the actual travel time doesn't need to be less than air for the door-to-door time to be competitive.

And what about Manchester? Anyone who has any experience of Manchester's rail network knows that it is incredibly fragile. At one end Stockport is heavily congested. At the other end so is the route through Castlefield. Projects to provide greater capacity in Manchester largely rely upon HS2 infrastructure.

We invented the train. We should have bullet trains like Japan running to every major city and they should leave and arrive on the exact second they are supposed to. We should also have fast and reliable rapid transit systems (like the Tube, but better) in every major city and town, and frequent and reliable buses in rural areas.

If the government want to cut down on car use, make public transport so good that keeping and running a car becomes pointless because public transport is so good (and cheap).

A 10 min drive is possible to cycle

And that's why our roads and environment are fucked

Not possible for everyone. I definitely couldn’t cycle to my local station, which is about a 10 minute drive - there’s no safe cycle route and even if there was, I have nowhere to keep a bike.

Exactly. Services during the Victorian era were more extensive than today. We can do better.

Yep. Which is why we need safe cycle routes that arexactually usable, and secure reliable bike storage

I live in zone 6 London and in general the trains are fairly reliable and run regularly. Yes there are delays, and strikes and cancellations. But I’d rather 12 mins on the train than 40 mins in the traffic. I grew up in North Wales and the public transport is awful, so when I came to london and saw people cramming into a tube when there’s another 2 mins later I couldn’t believe it. So I try not to moan about the transport here as it’s pretty decent

I think that if we had enough buses that people weren't crammed in together, this would be less of a problem

Ha. I knew there’dbe someone.

Point of this thread though isn’t it. I value my time more than anything else. I can’t afford to spend an extra 2 hours a day on public transport.

Well yeah, in this case the incentive would be making public transport actually usable. Which means as fast as driving (or close), reliable, affordable, and comfortable.

If it takes half a day to get to work, then people CAN'T use it.

Upgrading public transport would cost serious money, but it could be considered a great investment. Mobility and independence for those who can't drive. Employment. Cut back on health costs due to pollution and lost productivity due to traffic.

I used to be an avid cyclist before I came to this country.

Then I tried cycling here. No safe routes (the few there are randomly start and end after a few metres and often get walked on), enough impatient arseholes who'd overtake way too fast and too closely and roads in such a state that my last tyre lasted less than a month before it got a puncture.

Agree entirely. Would rather use the train to get to work but can't take the risk

I live in South London and work for Transport for London.

As long as you are heading for Zone 1, you are golden. Many buses head there and the trains are...satisfactory.

But despite improvements, going from one neighbourhood to another in South London can involve several changes and a loss of the will to live. It's also very expensive for the distance covered.

I'm considering investing in my own transport, so I don't have to wait in bus stops for ages whilst the service "regulates".

It's honestly quicker to do some journeys by bike or car.

In the outer boroughs like Bromley, engagement with public transport is much lower because it's so poor. The Mayor is trying to tackle this by introducing pay-per-mile (in 2025, I think) but tbh, you need good alternatives put in place first^^ before taking away your right to drive a car. We keep being told, get on your bike, but London is HUGE and not everyone can!

I have epilepsy and can't drive, the awful public transport is really limiting.

There really needs to be as much investment in public transport as there is on roads. There is an extensive road network that covers the whole of the UK. Someone must have decided to spend money to make that happen and maintain it over the years. People willingly spend thousands on their cars but expect public transport to be low cost/free and go everywhere that cars do. I hope driverless cars will be the longer term solution to make the most of the existing road network that has been prioritised over public transport.

There are people like me who can’t ride a bike

The uk spends far more on public transport than it does on roads.