AIBU to think that if WFH employees aren’t getting their work done, the problem is with their management?

[Chessboardtable]

So many people seem bitter about WFH and claim employees just slack off.

I WFH and have done since 2020 and my output since 2020 has been higher than before 2020. I work in a job where output is pretty easy to measure.

I am also a billion times happier for numerous reasons I won’t list but the main ones are not having to leave DC in after school club until it closes, no stressful commute on frequently delayed trains and more time to exercise.

I do my work flexibility, e.g. yesterday I finished early to collect DC at 3.30pm but I had worked Wednesday and Thursday evenings to get the work done in advance.

AIBU to think if WFH staff aren’t doing their work, they are not being effectively managed?

I agree OP. I also WFH in a similar set up.

We are allowed to work flexible hours, can nip out for appointments in the middle of the day if we need to etc. Most staff know they're onto a good thing with the flexibility so they don't take the piss.

The ones who do take the piss are managed well. If your figures/output are down, you are questioned on it. Plenty of people have been sacked for taking the piss. But the team have never been dragged back into the office en masse.

We are allowed to work flexible hours, can nip out for appointments in the middle of the day if we need to etc. Most staff know they're onto a good thing with the flexibility so they don't take the piss

Exactly my attitude @ProjectEdensGate

I don’t want to take the piss, get sacked and potentially ending up in a less flexible job

I work in a fully remote team, and it works really well. My workplace is well managed though.

I think there are still some old school bums on seats attitudes around, and that some people are slightly envious. I'd be interested to see some in depth research around productivity, and employer and employee satisfaction etc.

Yes @AbstemiousBreakfast

I would also say I am a million times more loyal to my employer and less likely to leave. WFH and flex is basically the reason I have stayed in my job so long.

Its the same people that are slackers at work are slackers at home and vice-versa, simples

Therefore and clearly YABU - but you are at your liberty to to think what you like

some don't like WFH as they are alone, don't have space, others in the house and other want to or love WFH and some like a little mix, EG, WFH and possibly a day in the office of their choosing

I agree, but it requires strong management. We have a couple of massive piss takers but instead of dealing with them we have all been ordered back to the office which is incredibly demotivating and will result in the good people leaving.

The piss takers just ring in sick now instead so the problem isn't even solved!

Surely it depends why they are not getting the work done.

If it is because they spend the day getting distracted by things in the home then it is not the managers fault.

It is a difficult one. If you can work well from home I can see why you would not want to give it up. But you will always get some employees who will take the piss and end up ruining it for all.

You can't assume that because you work harder everyone else is. I've seen posts on here from people who freely admit they don't do a full days work, maybe it will catch up with them eventually maybe it wont but of course it's going on

It’s a two-way street. Yes managers should actively manage, but staff who abuse freedoms risk those freedoms for everyone.

It’s not your boss’s fault if your children are interrupting your work. It is yours. It’s not your boss’s fault if you are working two jobs simultaneously, it’s yours.

Some employees really do take the piss with flexible working, and it has impacts on their colleagues as well. I don’t think it’s enough to say well that’s on the managers. It’s easy in jobs that have work that’s easy to measure - but in other industries/roles it’s often not until things go really wrong that someone outside can see.

If you’re not doing your work - chances are you are the problem. This sounds like trying to weasel out of responsibility for not working.

I'm way more productive at home as I have fewer distractions, it's much quieter and I'm less tired from commuting. Performance is looked at on an individual basis and managed accordingly.

I think people who slack at home will also slack in the office. Unless the manager is next to them, monitoring their every move, there are plenty of ways to waste time in the office - wandering around buying coffees and food, chatting to people, taking extended breaks.

I completely agree. I'm flexible with my team as a) they're adults and b) they hit their targets.

I often say that they can work where they like as long as the work gets done and they're there for our customers.

If they aren't working it would be very obvious as our results would deteriorate very quickly, and it would be my responsibility, as the Head of Department, to sort it.

I've also seen a lot of anti wfh sentiment on here, with frequent comments around 'if only nurses/doctors/supermarket workers' can do the same, and insinuating that not being at your desk 100% of the time whilst wfh is slacking off. As if different job types, having flexibility and being trusted are somehow bad things.

When I go into an office I'm less productive, so and so wants to catch up and then X needs your opinion on this, etc etc

At home I'm not interrupted so finish the same volume of work quicker like most people I'm sure which frees up that time to pop the kettle on and do a wash whilst that's doing instead of standing in the work kitchen hearing about Justin's renovation or Paul's poorly dog.

I might take a longer break and get the house work done or take a longer lunch and go for a walk in the daylight during winter in or do the shopping but with those chores done during the day I don't mind working later into the evening to make up the hours as long as my 7.5 hours is done at some point between 7am and 7pm.

I used to teach and obviously didn't have that flexibility, for many reasons I left education and purposefully sought out a job with flexibility and agile working practices. If others are unhappy with their career choices they are free to change and change up their working conditions.

I had a member of my team who only came in the office 1 day a week and spent the whole time chatting on those days. At home, his work was hard to measure but we did log what I call “dirty data” because I know it’s not exact. We logged email requests completed. (Requests can vary from a quick thing to full 6 month project) He would do 50-60 a month, went on leave for 4 weeks for paternity and I covered on top of my full job. I did 88. It’s a specialist job so was hard to know until a did it. I started trying to get him leading projects and was much more involved with him asking questions. I think performance review might have been needed but turns out he hated it so much he quit. I think he had a great gig but just needed to be more productive and he could have kept it.

I work in a job where output is pretty easy to measure

What about people who work in a job whose output isn’t easy to measure?

Managers cant control whats going on in someone's home. Its not for me to deal with my team's housework or childcare demands. I manage the work they are given and how well it is done.

Totally agree with you.

People on here get really bent out of shape whenever you say you have flexible working, or don't have to be sat at your desk from 9am-5pm everyday. It's odd and not an attitude I see in real life.

I don't work an office job but do work for myself and flex my hours as needed. I prefer to work longer days during the week and have Fridays as a half day where possible - and it is 90% of the time. It's not "piss taking" (as I read on another thread) to fit your job around your personal life as long as it doesn't impact on the client.

I can set my own hours and often refuse jobs that mean working late - one of the perks of being self-employed

I work longer hours at home. On the days I commute I only get there just before our start time whereas at home I am usually checking emails well before that while I have breakfast, and on office days I leave as close to 6 as I can so I get home at a decent time for dinner, but if I am WFH I can do an extra hour and still have dinner ready for 7.30.

No, you only need to go onto a few R89 money diaries to see how much millenials/Gen Z toss it off at home and happily keep a diary about it

Its the same people that are slackers at work are slackers at home and vice-versa, simples

Yep

I WFH. I'm the only person in my organisation who does. I'm trusted to get my job done because I worked from the office for 2 years beforehand and they know how hard I work.

Yes I nip out for half an hour sometimes - I need fresh air, or collect a parcel or get something from the shop. But I don't take the piss because I know I'm onto a good thing!

Yeah I agree actually. I've changed teams recently. My last manager left us to pretty much get on with it - work/productivity was never checked. I actually found the job fairly easy and realised I could absolutely hammer out my work on my two office days and take it easier when wfh. It was a job where I had a monthly workload, which I always completed easily. I can see how not being managed could make you take advantage of it and let things slide. She'd never of known if it wasn't completed as you dealt directly with the clients and finance department yourself regarding issues that arose.

My new role isn't the same, in that it's not a monthly workload. Its a constant stream of work coming in daily with issues to resolve and a large workload. The managers are delegating and assigning tasks, errors are picked up on as there are reports created that flags it to them. Complex cases we need to discuss with Managers on how to resolve. Productivity is tracked through software we use and there is weekly meetings etc. You really couldn't get away with messing around whilst working from home, tidying the house, taking it easy etc.

Whilst this is true - I have seen people set themselves up to fail in a wfh setup. Caring for kids is a big one (not saying this is OP!). It’s very different having your 11/12 year olds playing in the backyard while you’re working for a couple hours, than having your 3 year old at home while you work all day (or even just a couple hours).

Other people in the home is another factor - a coffee with colleagues is part social part productive work for me. Actually a lot of our mentoring and training happens through these informal chats. A similar break with family is always social (cause we can’t talk work). There’s also issues with how responsive some people are in an online environment. In the office I can see your desk - I know where you are, and have clues to when you’re free for interaction. I can interrupt your social chat with a work enquiry etc. When you’re out of sight, it’s much harder - so if you choose flexibility that means you aren’t overlapping with key times with your colleagues (either wfh or in-person) that’sa big issue.

The lack of a work environment can also make distractions harder to resist for some people.

WFH can be really effective for some people in some roles, hybrid has even more going for it. But I don’t think it’s as simple as saying well they’d waste time in the office too. Because that’s but necessarily the case.

Completely agree.

WFH has been brilliant for my workplace. We have no problems with recruitment, retention, or productivity.

We are completely flexible and treat people as adults and in return they behave like adults.

Poor performance needs to be dealt with whether it's virtual or in-person. And if it's not dealt with then you have a poor performing manager as well as a poor performing colleague.

We actually have far fewer HR problems now than we did before the pandemic.

I do find the usual negative lines trotted out and invariably said by people who don't work, who work in person and want to validate their own experience or those who are just ultra traditional.

Slackers will slack wherever they work. I WFH, have done since 2017. My work gets done, I work flexible hours and probably more than I would in an office.

I think there is some bitterness from those that can't work from home, some of it is understandable. E.g., in my organisation, some people have to be on site. They get irritated as they see the people who work from home having an easier ride. I can pop out for an appointment, it doesn't matter if my car is in for it's MOT but they have to take leave so they feel they're getting a shitty deal.

There are downsides to working from home too, of course. I feel obligated to log on outside of working hours sometimes, I wouldn't if I was office based.

My manager runs a tight ship, she's also very flexible. If our work wasn't being done to a high standard then we'd be pulled up on it. I used to manage staff, I found out quickly that I'm not skilled at managing people! I'd struggle to manage a team working from home, just like I would a team in the office.

Controlling what's going on in someone's home is not good management. And should never be attempted.

That's not effective management